Being Black in America: Part 2
Hello listeners! It’s Jackie McGriff, your host on today’s podcast episode where we’re diving into our film, Being Black in America with more of our storytellers. Yes, this is PART TWO! If you haven’t already listened to Part 1, please go do so. You can catch that episode and all of our other podcast episodes anywhere that you get your podcasts.
If this is your first time listening, two things – the first is HEYYYYY and the second is Being Black in America is our latest short documentary film where we show an array of different thoughts and attitudes behind Blackness and what it means to everyone on a personal level by asking one central question, What does being Black in America mean to you? It’s a question that’s asked in so many ways on screen indirectly and never seen as a conversation amongst ourselves but directly at the camera to a general audience. This film, however, turns that on its head and makes the audience a bystander, not a participant.
Today's episode features the second half of our storytellers featured in the film: Tiffany Porter, Kim Smith, Tiffany Porter, Dr. Katrina Overby, and Gabrielle Brannigan. We get into a whole lot about Black identity, intersectionality, and how Black folks, especially Black women and queer folks are portrayed in the media, and our history like you haven't heard it before and the importance of teaching that history RIGHT.
As it's referenced in the podcast, be sure to check out Dr. Katrina Overby's thesis, Doin’ It for the Culture: Defining Blackness, Culture, and Identity on Black Twitter: https://www.proquest.com/docview/2305527251?pq-origsite=gscholar&fromopenview=true&sourcetype=Dissertations%20&%20Theses
You can also read her latest in the intersectional feminist journal, "Gatherings", The Familiar Feels Like Family: A Black Feminists' Approach to Placemaking and Gathering for Black Women in the Academy: https://fisherpub.sjf.edu/gatherings/vol1/iss1/5/.
Want to host a screening and talkback of Being Black in America? Visit https://www.ourvoicesproject.com/hostbbia and fill out our screening interest form. We’d LOVE to bring our film to you to create brave and safe spaces for unfiltered discussions about Blackness, host panels with Black community leaders, activists, students, and entrepreneurs committed to racial equity and pushing for real change with action items.
Transcript
Our Voices Project acknowledges and honors that the lands we live, love, grow, work and learn on are the ancestral homelands of the people of the Onondaga or the Seneca, one of the Six nations of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy, along with the Cayuga who call themselves the Gayukono, the Onondaga who call themselves the Onondaga, the Oneida who call themselves Oneidica, the Mohawk who call themselves Genegahaga, and the Tuscarora, who call themselves Garure.
Speaker A:We acknowledge that our society was founded upon exclusions and erasures of many Indigenous peoples through centuries of genocide and forced separation from family, culture, language, and from land, spirit and mind.
Speaker A:We acknowledge this violent history of seizure and displacement that allows us to be on this land not only as a recognition but as a motivation for change.
Speaker A:As filmmakers, we are committed to working to dismantle the ongoing legacies of settler colonialism through truth telling.
Speaker A:We invite you to join us in enacting justice by taking such steps as committing to making a recurring monthly donation to a Native led organization such as to Ginondagon State Historic Site in Victor, New York and or Native Made in Rochester, New York.
Speaker A:Visit these organizations and find out how you can volunteer your time and help support Native led initiatives.
Speaker A:Find out how Indigenous peoples are represented in your local school district's curricula and advocate for the historical truth telling of ancestral land dispossession and genocide and the acknowledgement and celebration of Indigenous contributions past and present.
Speaker A:Learn about the Murdered and Missing Indigenous Women movement created to advocate for the end of violence against Native women and to bring awareness to the high rates of disappearances and murders of Native people, particularly women and girls.
Speaker A:Learn how you can help help work towards truth, healing and justice for the Indian boarding school impacts by contributing to the National Native American Boarding School Healing Coalition.
Jackie McGriff:Hello everyone and welcome to Representation in Cinema.
Jackie McGriff:Our Voices project is a production company committed to providing a safe space and platform for Black, Brown and Indigenous Peoples to share experiences while dismantling destructive stereotypes perpetuated in the media through visual storytelling and truth telling.
Jackie McGriff:On this podcast we talk about the many ways in which Black Brown Indigenous peoples are portrayed in films.
Jackie McGriff:We address the things that we love, seeing the tropes and stereotypes that Hollywood continues to perpetuate on screen and what representation we'd like to see moving forward.
Jackie McGriff:Hello listeners, it's Jackie McGriff, your host on today's podcast episode where we're diving into our film Being Black in America with more of our storytellers.
Jackie McGriff:Yes, this is Part two So if you haven't already listened to part one, please go do so.
Jackie McGriff:You can catch that episode and all of our other podcast episodes anywhere that you get your podcasts.
Jackie McGriff:If this is your first time listening.
Jackie McGriff:Two things the first is hey and the second is Being Black in America is our latest short documentary film where we show an array of different thoughts and attitudes behind blackness and what it means to everyone on a personal level by asking one central question.
Jackie McGriff:What does being Black in America mean to you?
Jackie McGriff:It's a question that's asked in so many ways on screen, indirectly and never seen as a conversation amongst ourselves, but directly at the camera to a general audience.
Jackie McGriff:This film, however, turns that on its head and makes the audience a bystander, not a participant.
Jackie McGriff:Before we get into the episode, we want to remind folks that you can read more information about all of our productions on our website at our voices project.com and if you'd like to host a screening of Being Black in America, visit ourvoicesproject.com host BBIA as in being Black in America and fill out our screening interest form.
Jackie McGriff:We'd love to bring our film to you to create brave and safe spaces for unfiltered discussions about blackness.
Jackie McGriff:Host panels with black community leaders, activists, students and entrepreneurs committed to racial equity and pushing for real change with action items.
Jackie McGriff:Some news since our last episode, our Voices Project is heading downstate for our first ever film festival at the Voices Rising Film Festival in East Islip with Being Black in America.
Jackie McGriff:Our screening is on Saturday, October 19th at 1pm so if you're from the area or don't mind taking a road trip, come see us there and watch the film with us.
Jackie McGriff:Now let's introduce our guests in the studio.
Jackie McGriff:We have Tiffany Porter.
Jackie McGriff:Tiffany Porter is the founder of Being Black and the Burbs and Accomplices.
Jackie McGriff:A fierce warrior for social and racial justice, Tiffany navigates the role of a mother to three sons with unwavering dedication to dismantling oppressive structures.
Jackie McGriff:Their mission is rooted in the belief that none of us can truly be free until all are liberated.
Jackie McGriff:Welcome Tiffany.
Tiffany Porter:Thank you.
Tiffany Porter:Thank you for having me.
Jackie McGriff:Next we have Gabrielle Branigan.
Jackie McGriff:Gabrielle Branigan is a student at the University of Rochester Warner School of Education and a social studies teacher and coach in Monroe County.
Jackie McGriff:Gabrielle was also on her very first episode of the podcast, discussing the film the Harder They Fall and giving us insight into the real life historical figures featured in that film.
Jackie McGriff:Welcome back to the podcast, Gabrielle.
Gabrielle Branigan:Hi.
Kim Smith:Thank you for having me.
Kim Smith:Me.
Jackie McGriff:Kim Smith also joins us tonight.
Jackie McGriff:Kim Smith is A Rochester native on the City Council whose work has prioritized community building initiatives as she works to forge relationships that lead to effective governing.
Jackie McGriff:Kim is a political Director for Vocal Us and that's Voices of Community Activists and Leaders.
Jackie McGriff:Vocal works directly with impacted individuals and elected officials to create policies that will end HIV homelessness, the overdose crisis, and mass incarceration.
Jackie McGriff:As an at large member of City Council, Kim is the liaison for the Police Accountability Board, also known as pab, and the Rochester Monroe Anti Poverty Initiative, also known as armappy.
Jackie McGriff:She was also one of the Council members who stood in favor of passing a ceasefire resolution here in New York in Rochester, New York.
Jackie McGriff:Welcome to the podcast, Kim.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Thanks for having me, Jackie.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Glad to be here.
Jackie McGriff:Lastly, but certainly not least, we have Dr.
Jackie McGriff:Katrina Overby, who joins us a third time on our podcast.
Jackie McGriff:She was on our episodes for both the Harder They Fall and Attack the Block.
Jackie McGriff:Katrina, a tenure track assistant professor at the School of Communication at the Rochester Institute of Technology, is an activist scholar who is interested broadly in media, race, sexuality, and gender.
Jackie McGriff:Specifically, her research interests are in Black Twitter, social media and culture, African American cinema, race and identity in television and popular culture, sports media, and the scholarship of teaching and learning.
Jackie McGriff: loomington, Indiana in August: Jackie McGriff:Her dissertation was titled Doing it for the Culture, Defining Blackness, Culture and Identity on Black Twitter.
Jackie McGriff: Oklahoma State University in: Jackie McGriff:She's currently teaching public speaking, interpersonal communication, communication law and ethics, and communication and identity, and recently joined the editorial board for Gatherings, an interdisciplinary intersectional feminist journal housed by St.
Jackie McGriff:John Fisher University.
Jackie McGriff:Overbee's sorry.
Jackie McGriff:Overby's article the familiar Feels like a Black Feminist Approach to Place Making and Gathering for Black Women in the Academy, is featured in the journal's first volume titled Exploring Feminist Placemaking.
Jackie McGriff:Welcome back to the podcast, Katrina.
Gabrielle Branigan:Hello listeners, and thank you, Jackie.
Jackie McGriff:All right, and you all are welcome.
Jackie McGriff:Thank you for being here.
Jackie McGriff:All right, now let's get into the discussion.
Jackie McGriff:Okay, so let's talk a little bit about our filmmaking process.
Jackie McGriff:Had any of you been involved in a film or any video interviews before?
Jackie McGriff:And if not, what were your initial thoughts when you were asked about getting involved?
Gabrielle Branigan:I'll say luckily I've had some opportunities and so maybe wasn't so nervous about coming together, but had a high anticipation about being able to meet other black people in Rochester, New York, in a city that I'm not from, wasn't born in.
Gabrielle Branigan:And so working with our Voices projects over the last couple of years have offered me a few of those opportunities, but not particularly documentaries, but I hope it won't be the last one.
Jackie McGriff:Oh, absolutely not.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Jackie.
Dr. Katrina Overby:I am media shy and never thought that I would do anything like that.
Dr. Katrina Overby:So that was my first time, but then I was asked to do something else.
Dr. Katrina Overby:But after that day, I was done.
Dr. Katrina Overby:I was done.
Dr. Katrina Overby:The topic was heavy, the conversation was heavy.
Dr. Katrina Overby:So thankful that you included me in that process, but it was very heavy.
Jackie McGriff:Thank you for sharing that.
Jackie McGriff:Yeah.
Tiffany Porter:I've never been in like a documentary or interview kind of like that.
Tiffany Porter:So I.
Tiffany Porter:First of all, public speaking in me just does not go together.
Tiffany Porter:I was forced to go to public speaking class in eighth grade.
Tiffany Porter:My teacher walked me down to the guidance counselor, was like, she has to go to public speaking next year.
Tiffany Porter:So.
Tiffany Porter:And that has stuck with me since, you know, my adult years.
Tiffany Porter:So I am, I like to be behind the scenes.
Tiffany Porter:I don't even like giving news interviews because once the cameras come on, I just blink.
Tiffany Porter:And so I expected to like take some Adderall so I can concentrate and process what I needed to, but also just try to relax and be comfortable and understand like there's not 50,000 people watching me and you know, so first time.
Tiffany Porter:And I'm happy.
Tiffany Porter:I love the space that I was in, but definitely nerve wracking.
Kim Smith:Yeah, I would, I would agree with that.
Kim Smith:I think as an educator, I can public speak.
Kim Smith:Put me in crowd of thousand people, 10,000 people.
Kim Smith:That doesn't bother me.
Kim Smith:Old, new kids, adults, I'm fine.
Kim Smith:I can public speak.
Kim Smith:It's the thought of having a camera on me and then not even being recorded, but then watching myself or listening to, that's the part that got me.
Kim Smith:That was the part where I was like, that's what I look like.
Kim Smith:That's what I look like at that angle to everybody.
Kim Smith:So I think that was the part that I got caught up in, right.
Kim Smith:And caught in my head about like, oh, no, this is what, this is something to be nervous about.
Kim Smith:And then I think, like you were saying, Kim, once I got there in the space, yes, it was heavy.
Kim Smith:But it also is one of the few times in my life where I have been surrounded by so many black people and people who were willing to talk and willing to share.
Kim Smith:And I think for me, the sense of community and safety came pretty quickly.
Kim Smith:And I feel for myself in a lot of other spaces, it takes a really long time.
Kim Smith:And I just.
Kim Smith:I appreciated that I was put at ease pretty quickly.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Yeah.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Because in the everyday media, like you mentioned, you know, when those cameras come on, because it feels very exploitive because you don't know what people are going to ask and what feeling it is going to trigger within you.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And so you're in the moment, being vulnerable, speaking your truth, and someone standing there with a camera.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And I was so afraid that that was going to be my experience with being black in America.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And it wasn't.
Dr. Katrina Overby:It was a round table discussion, like you mentioned, with sisters.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And we did have a brother there.
Jackie McGriff:Yes.
Jackie McGriff:Yes, you did.
Jackie McGriff:What were.
Jackie McGriff:And I guess what did you feel immediately, if you remember back?
Jackie McGriff:And it was, of course, like earlier this year that we filmed this shot.
Jackie McGriff:It got it, like, edited and everything, and now it's out there.
Jackie McGriff:What did you immediately feel like once we wrapped.
Kim Smith:Community?
Kim Smith:Right.
Kim Smith:Like, I think it's interesting to be in a space with people who most I'd never met where I'd only heard of, like, Tiffany.
Kim Smith:Right.
Kim Smith:And to be in a space leaving thinking how much closer I felt to people who essentially were complete strangers.
Kim Smith:I didn't expect to feel that and I didn't.
Kim Smith:I didn't know what to do with it.
Kim Smith:Right.
Kim Smith:Like, that was.
Kim Smith:That was.
Kim Smith:I don't.
Kim Smith:I still.
Kim Smith:Right.
Kim Smith:Don't know what to do with it.
Kim Smith:But it was a.
Kim Smith:Community is the first word that comes to mind to your question.
Gabrielle Branigan:I think piggybacking on you saying, like, sort of, you know, strangers.
Gabrielle Branigan:Like, it felt like we might have come in as strangers, but once it ended, I was like, okay, I have more questions.
Gabrielle Branigan:Like, is that really all the time that we have?
Gabrielle Branigan:I think I looked up and I was like, that.
Gabrielle Branigan:Is that.
Gabrielle Branigan:Is that it?
Gabrielle Branigan:I was like, oh, we sort of just got started.
Gabrielle Branigan:I feel like the.
Gabrielle Branigan:The ice was starting to melt in what people were able to express or talk about.
Gabrielle Branigan:I think there was some immediate shyness happening when we first started, and we're expected to sort of start answering the question.
Gabrielle Branigan:Right.
Gabrielle Branigan:And think through that and actually get to hear what other people are saying as we're also expressing ourselves.
Gabrielle Branigan:So I think I left feeling like there wasn't enough time.
Gabrielle Branigan:And I hope I get the opportunity to continue to reach out or see or support what each and every one of us has going on.
Jackie McGriff:Absolutely.
Jackie McGriff:Gabrielle, you look like you were about to Say something.
Gabrielle Branigan:I was.
Kim Smith:I was just gonna talk about time because you kind of.
Kim Smith:I had played the role sort of facilitator.
Kim Smith:And I remember at various times, two or three times, but, like, before we started the filming.
Kim Smith:And you're like, okay, so I'm gonna put my hand up, and that'll be the signal that we're at time.
Kim Smith:And then you put your hand up, and that was time.
Jackie McGriff:And we were still going.
Kim Smith:And I was like, well, I can't interrupt anybody now.
Kim Smith:Like, this is this.
Kim Smith:I was getting good.
Kim Smith:Like, not only comfortable.
Kim Smith:So then you put your hand up the second time, and then I'm sweating because I'm like, okay.
Kim Smith:Well, I have been tasked with keeping us on track on time, and I'm very much like a punctual human.
Kim Smith:And so then the third time you put your hand up, I was like, I think that we need to wrap it up.
Jackie McGriff:And so thank you so much for sharing it.
Kim Smith:And I just remember thinking, I don't.
Kim Smith:No way were we fitting all of that conversation in one hour.
Kim Smith:That was not possible in any way, shape or form.
Jackie McGriff:Yeah, Yeah.
Dr. Katrina Overby:I walked away feeling like I needed to be brought back to the present or brought back to center, because as a black woman in America, I live the experience but have never been asked to speak about it.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And speaking about it felt very different.
Dr. Katrina Overby:It was.
Dr. Katrina Overby:It was painful.
Dr. Katrina Overby:It was encouraging.
Dr. Katrina Overby:It was all of the things, you know?
Dr. Katrina Overby:And so just.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And even since then, consistently being cognizant and remembering, like, when I'm in the community or anywhere outside of my home and I am experiencing something because I am black, I go back to that experience.
Dr. Katrina Overby:But that experience taught me to name the feeling and to talk through it.
Dr. Katrina Overby:So, yeah, I think that's what I mean when I say it was heavy because it is still with me.
Jackie McGriff:Yeah, absolutely.
Jackie McGriff:Absolutely.
Jackie McGriff:Which leads me into my another question.
Jackie McGriff:Are there any moments that while filming that stuck out to you?
Kim Smith:That's like asking me what I had for breakfast.
Jackie McGriff:Yeah, I know it was a while ago.
Jackie McGriff:If you do.
Jackie McGriff:If you do remember.
Dr. Katrina Overby:I remember the visual when I first walked into the space, and I was already feeling, like, the topic, like, what are we going to do?
Dr. Katrina Overby:Talk about our experiences?
Dr. Katrina Overby:And Tiffany walked in the room.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And your physical appearance that day, it just.
Dr. Katrina Overby:It weighed on me.
Dr. Katrina Overby:You were.
Dr. Katrina Overby:You just look like the epitome of power of all of the black women that I read about.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And that was one of the things that Tiffany stuck with me that day.
Gabrielle Branigan:That's beautiful.
Jackie McGriff:It is.
Tiffany Porter:Thank you so much.
Gabrielle Branigan:I would agree.
Kim Smith:I would agree too.
Tiffany Porter:For me, it was hearing everyone speak.
Tiffany Porter:And then I remember when Kim was like, tissues.
Tiffany Porter:And I was thinking, oh, please don't start.
Tiffany Porter:Because if one person starts, I'm done.
Tiffany Porter:Right?
Tiffany Porter:Like, it's gone.
Tiffany Porter:So I.
Tiffany Porter:It was just being in that space with everyone and having the familiar stories, the.
Tiffany Porter:The.
Tiffany Porter:The experiences, and just knowing that you're not alone.
Tiffany Porter:I kind of, I took that with me and I was so grateful to be in that space.
Tiffany Porter:And I also felt safe to say what I needed to say.
Tiffany Porter:And I knew that people were.
Tiffany Porter:They felt it too, but they also could empathize with me.
Tiffany Porter:And you just don't get that everywhere.
Tiffany Porter:So coming into a new space and then having people that are welcoming but also vulnerable in what they're saying, and then also you're able to process and sit with your feelings and also theirs too, because it was kind of heavy at times was just like, it was like, damn, I just, I can't believe I'm here.
Tiffany Porter:So, you know, I was looking at everybody and then I was hearing their accomplishments and I was just like, I just, I love that for everyone.
Tiffany Porter:Like, I love that K.
Tiffany Porter:City council, that we have a professor in here, we have teachers.
Tiffany Porter:I just, I love that.
Tiffany Porter:And not to be elitist or anything like that, I just, I just think the power that we had in the room was just so dynamic and everybody came from different backgrounds and I just wanted to pull from all of that and that's what kind of from pain to power.
Jackie McGriff:To go back a little bit to what you were saying, Tiffany, about just taking in everyone's experiences.
Jackie McGriff:And all of you really kind of touched on that and hearing everyone's stories and their backgrounds and their experiences and everything.
Jackie McGriff:For me, what that also kind of alludes to a little bit is intersectionality.
Jackie McGriff: at term has been around since: Jackie McGriff:But we're now hearing more mentions of it now in everyday vernacular, whenever discussing identity.
Jackie McGriff:And I wanted to know from each of you, what does that term spring up for you right away?
Gabrielle Branigan:This is a great question because we hear people say intersectionality all the time.
Gabrielle Branigan:And I believe it's sometimes loss where the root of the word came from or whose experiences were being centered in this idea and notion about intersectionality.
Gabrielle Branigan:But that we all have intersecting identities.
Gabrielle Branigan:Right?
Gabrielle Branigan:It sort of sounds like what it is.
Gabrielle Branigan:Like what are those things about us that we claim and either self acknowledge or self identify as, as well as those others that get sort of presumed upon us by Society, no matter what we look like.
Gabrielle Branigan:And so, for me, I've always thought about intersectionality, being that at any moment I am enacting or relying on any number of identities to be the lens in which I respond.
Gabrielle Branigan:I'm behaving, assessing information, and that each of these are rooted in various parts of my experiences that I've personally had, that I've had as a collective with other people that share the identities that I have and that I embody and that I align myself with.
Gabrielle Branigan:And then again, just how all of these things play a part and how I move through society, in society, outside of society, and all of those things.
Gabrielle Branigan:So I love intersectionality.
Gabrielle Branigan:I love, in a lot of my research projects, being able to say who I am in the research.
Gabrielle Branigan:I'm someone that is expressive in my work.
Gabrielle Branigan:I like to bring myself into my projects.
Gabrielle Branigan:I try to say, a lot of these don't exist without me at the center of them.
Gabrielle Branigan:And so who am I at the center of this work?
Gabrielle Branigan:How do I view this?
Gabrielle Branigan:This is one lens.
Gabrielle Branigan:This is my lens.
Gabrielle Branigan:And these are the things that that lens means for this particular assessment.
Gabrielle Branigan:And so I love being able to enact things like intersectionality.
Gabrielle Branigan:Or sometimes in research, we call that positionality, making a positionality statement.
Gabrielle Branigan:Who I am to this work at any time.
Kim Smith:Kim, earlier, you were talking about how the experience kind of give you language for something.
Kim Smith:And I think that's my experience with intersectionality.
Kim Smith:Like, I think as a biracial woman, I grew up, and society kind of wants to force us into boxes.
Kim Smith:And you have to check off, literally and figuratively, like, you have to check.
Tiffany Porter:Off who you are.
Dr. Katrina Overby:My word, right?
Kim Smith:And intersectionality, hearing that word for the first time was like permission to be many things.
Kim Smith:So for me, that's what it means.
Kim Smith:I can be multiple things and hold multiple truths at once.
Kim Smith:And it doesn't diminish any of them.
Kim Smith:It doesn't rise one above the other.
Kim Smith:And I think a memory that stands out to me from the filming was realizing that that's a shared experience and that everybody carries multiple identities, that we all have multiple truths within us.
Kim Smith:And whether we're willing to share them or not, whether they're cast upon us by society or whether they're from inside of us, that everybody has them.
Kim Smith:And that, I think, wasn't the first time that I had an experience like that, but it was the first time I had an experience like that with other black people or other people who identify across races.
Tiffany Porter:So for me, I think I said this in the actual Film, I'm not sure, but for me, I feel like I was robbed in my education.
Tiffany Porter: nd so that term was coined in: Tiffany Porter: or even hear that term until: Tiffany Porter:I went to college and I studied social work.
Tiffany Porter:I wanted to help people.
Tiffany Porter:That was my biggest thing.
Tiffany Porter: I had to quit in: Tiffany Porter:And still, in that studies, intersectionality was not talked about.
Tiffany Porter:And that's social work.
Tiffany Porter:That should be the place where we are learning about that.
Tiffany Porter:Instead, we were learning off of white old philosophers who have been dead for, like, centuries.
Tiffany Porter:Right.
Tiffany Porter:Learning about conditioning and stuff like that.
Tiffany Porter:It had nothing to do with.
Tiffany Porter: o once I learned that term in: Tiffany Porter:Like, I.
Tiffany Porter:These are all things that I identify with, and there's actually a term for this.
Tiffany Porter:Like what?
Tiffany Porter:Like and who.
Tiffany Porter:And so I felt so robbed, but, you know, liberated at the same time once I learned about it.
Tiffany Porter:And it's just like, it reminded me of how our education system is just, like, not there for African American people.
Tiffany Porter:Like, it's just not.
Dr. Katrina Overby:It's one of the things that makes, I believe, intersectionality challenging, because, as you mentioned, it's all of the things comprehensively.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And so when we look at race and being black and class thinking about intersectionality, where we can't limit ourselves to just look at racism outside of the black experience, we have to look at anti blackness and how that shows up in the black community.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And so looking at all of those things, the anti blackness, the anti lgbtq, just all of those things, it's.
Dr. Katrina Overby:It makes it challenging to look at.
Jackie McGriff:Oh, yeah, absolutely.
Jackie McGriff:Going back a little bit to, again, taking the power back, especially.
Jackie McGriff:And I hadn't realized this, of course, until, like, I think I knew it in the back of my head.
Jackie McGriff:But, Tiffany, you were mentioning how intersectionality has been.
Jackie McGriff: at term has been around since: Jackie McGriff: It was coined in: Jackie McGriff:And I also just remember there's quite a few of you actually, in the film who were talking about education and taking your power back through education.
Jackie McGriff:And so what I also wanted to get into is at the various points of the film, as I said, everyone talks about the importance of learning our history and passing that down to younger generations.
Jackie McGriff:Is there an aspect of black history that you feel really needs to immediately be added into the curriculum and, of course, all of it.
Jackie McGriff:But let's say you played a much larger role in coming up with curricula that would be required learning.
Jackie McGriff:What's 1, 2, or a few topics that we need to focus on?
Jackie McGriff:And it doesn't have to be just one point in history.
Jackie McGriff:I mean, it can be several.
Jackie McGriff:But I wanted to hear from you.
Tiffany Porter:Just, I think how black American culture has shaped the world.
Jackie McGriff:I think, like, read Katrina's dissertation.
Jackie McGriff:It's in the show notes.
Jackie McGriff:It's in the show notes.
Tiffany Porter:I feel like, please go read that dissertation.
Kim Smith:I will.
Gabrielle Branigan:Only a month after it was published, I was like, oop, is that a typo?
Gabrielle Branigan:Yes, I am.
Tiffany Porter:I am.
Tiffany Porter:I just feel like it's the most imitated and the most disrespected at the same time.
Tiffany Porter:So that needs to be in the curriculum.
Tiffany Porter:It needs to show how not only did we build America, how we shaped it, but how are we doing it now.
Jackie McGriff:Yeah.
Tiffany Porter:In every different part of the world, you can see hip hop.
Tiffany Porter:You can see something that has black us to do with it.
Jackie McGriff:Yeah.
Tiffany Porter:And yet we are still around the world, like, seen as having no culture as black Americans, because we were, you know, not, you know, we were kidnapped.
Jackie McGriff:Yeah.
Tiffany Porter:We were stolen, human trafficked.
Tiffany Porter:Right.
Tiffany Porter:And so just.
Tiffany Porter:Just that alone needs to be in the curriculum.
Tiffany Porter:I think that will give empowerment to the youth and knowing that they had that sense of culture, that sense of belonging, because, let's face it, a lot of us, we were left feeling like we didn't belong anywhere because we didn't know where we came from in Africa.
Tiffany Porter:Right.
Tiffany Porter:No, but I think that is just what we need to do for our kids, to give them back that culture that we already have and let them, like, really focus on it.
Dr. Katrina Overby:So, Tiffany, I think that's spot on because I remember history in high school.
Dr. Katrina Overby:I remember taking, like, civilization or history in college, and I never saw myself in any of it.
Dr. Katrina Overby:So it's not just what is being taught that needs to be changed, but how it is framed that needs to be changed.
Dr. Katrina Overby:We have had a clear path and journey from pain to power.
Dr. Katrina Overby:We're talking about people who were stolen from Africa, forced into slavery for many years, went through an area of reconstruction where we were given a mule and some acres, and then that being taken back, denied our right to vote, even after freedom starting.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Even as they started as.
Dr. Katrina Overby:What's the author, Alexander?
Dr. Katrina Overby:The New Jim Crow.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And even as they try to jail us.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And I shouldn't put that in the past.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Try to jail us as A form of the new slavery.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Still, as you mentioned, Tiffany, we are here in this space as professors, as council members, black jobs running for president, I mean, all of these great things.
Dr. Katrina Overby:So it is the framing that needs to change.
Kim Smith:I think I'm going to take it even back.
Kim Smith:Right.
Kim Smith:I think the American public school education system works exactly the way it was intended to work.
Jackie McGriff:Yes.
Kim Smith:It works to make people forget.
Kim Smith:It works to perpetuate racism, picking ism, really.
Kim Smith:Right.
Kim Smith:And to fit people into boxes.
Kim Smith:And so I agree.
Kim Smith:I'm going to echo what you're saying about the framing needs to change, but the framing has.
Kim Smith:It stands is victim.
Gabrielle Branigan:Right.
Kim Smith:So we went from not talking about it at all in schools because the public school, well, they were segregated, and then moving to talking about it only from a victim perspective.
Kim Smith:Black history has and is still only taught from a victim perspective that we don't have culture, that we don't have any power, that we all of these things happen to us.
Kim Smith:And we all were just like, oh, darn.
Kim Smith:Right.
Kim Smith:And so many, many conversations that I have with colleagues and a lot of the work that I have done as an educator has changed that narrative.
Kim Smith:The idea that the first time that a black child, the first time I ever learned black history was slavery and then the Dr.
Kim Smith:Martin Luther King Jr.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Right.
Kim Smith:And there's so, so, so, so much just even in Rochester, so much more to even talk about.
Kim Smith:But it's still there, still people who teach it has victimization.
Kim Smith:And is that an aspect?
Kim Smith:Most certainly it is.
Kim Smith:But there for your example with Reconstruction, Right?
Kim Smith:Yes.
Kim Smith: construction, when It ends in: Kim Smith:And people who were formerly enslaved and considered objects, they were owned by somebody else are now serving in the highest level of government in this nation.
Kim Smith:And it's only after the federal government stops enforcing that that all of a sudden now, magically, for another 120 years, black folk aren't elected to Congress in the Southern states.
Kim Smith:That's a problem.
Kim Smith:But we don't talk about that.
Kim Smith:That's not in the curriculum.
Kim Smith:The curriculum is, well, Reconstruction, Jim Crow.
Kim Smith:Right.
Kim Smith:This victimization again.
Kim Smith:And so I think it's an.
Kim Smith:The American school system works the way it's designed to work, and that needs to be overhauled.
Kim Smith:That's what needs to change.
Kim Smith:So we can change the perspectives, we can change the curriculum, we can change the teacher education programs.
Kim Smith:Until the education system relents and is reformed, the narrative will still continue to be the same in curriculum.
Kim Smith:It's still going to be pockets of people who are teaching truth and empowering.
Kim Smith:Right.
Kim Smith:And then there'll be the majority of people who still are just going to teach.
Kim Smith:It has the.
Kim Smith:The victim perspective, which I think is what we're seeing happen.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Wow.
Gabrielle Branigan:Wow.
Gabrielle Branigan:Yeah, I was gonna say thank you for going there.
Kim Smith:You asked two educators about native educators.
Gabrielle Branigan:I'm about to tap in because you already went there with Martin Luther King, Dr.
Gabrielle Branigan:Martin Luther King Jr.
Gabrielle Branigan:I want to say, you know, we love our black heroes and legends, and they often choose and pick the 1, 2, or the 3 that are going to be lifted up as the black American heroes that they're okay with and their stories.
Gabrielle Branigan:And so I remember giving the keynote a year or two ago at RIT for the Martin Luther King Day, Let freedom Ring at RIT And I decided to take the moment to talk about local black women doing the work, using their time, their talents and their truth to make Rochester a better place.
Gabrielle Branigan:We can be here under the onus of Dr.
Gabrielle Branigan:Martin Luther King Jr.
Gabrielle Branigan:But what we're going to talk about is the work that's happening here and how we can support the work that's happening here.
Gabrielle Branigan:And so one thing I would like to see happen, our schools moving away from these singular individuals that we continue to prop up and propel and talk about our local folks in the moment who are doing things.
Gabrielle Branigan:So this will take each district knowing who some of those black local move makers, grassroots folks are, as well as educating them about the power of mutual assistance and the collective of black folks that has always been around.
Gabrielle Branigan:So these individuals didn't exist alone or in isolation or in silos.
Gabrielle Branigan:They had groups of people, people to support them.
Gabrielle Branigan:What does that look like?
Gabrielle Branigan:What did that empower us to do?
Gabrielle Branigan:Where did mutual work in the collective take us?
Gabrielle Branigan:Not the individuals.
Gabrielle Branigan:Where did the collective take us?
Gabrielle Branigan:And so I think that aids in reframing of history, especially when we actually take the time to dig into the context in which these events happen.
Gabrielle Branigan:You often hear events, oh, black Wall street, yada, yada, but they don't want to go into the, maybe the violence and how evil some of these things were, the intention, because everyone wants to be so removed from maybe what their ancestors did and take this sort of narrative, well, we weren't here, we didn't do it, so let's forget about it.
Gabrielle Branigan:But you know, that's not the way that we Learn to do better and how we've already done better for ourselves.
Gabrielle Branigan:And so along with that, and I'll say this, as an HBCU grad, I think more education about the power of historically black colleges and universities and where those have taken us as well as they have educated some of the most brilliant and talented among us.
Gabrielle Branigan:And of those were a lot of students who would not have possibly even been granted access into other institutions.
Gabrielle Branigan:Well, from the history of it in the beginning.
Gabrielle Branigan:Right.
Gabrielle Branigan:But then there are other ways that folks get funding and support to go to historically black colleges and universities when they were not accepted into others.
Gabrielle Branigan:And so those have paved the way for us as well.
Gabrielle Branigan:So, yeah, there's a lot that we could change and talk about, but the victim mentality, I'm sort of.
Gabrielle Branigan:Yeah, a little bit tired of that one as well.
Gabrielle Branigan:There's a lot of joy in the black experience.
Gabrielle Branigan:And so sometimes I would like for us to start with the joy that is, I think the collective is the joy.
Jackie McGriff:Right.
Gabrielle Branigan:We know that as we work together that there are things that we can get done.
Jackie McGriff:Anything else to add to that?
Jackie McGriff:I feel like.
Jackie McGriff:I mean, I could listen to all y'all talk about education.
Jackie McGriff:I'm just sitting here.
Jackie McGriff:I'm just sitting back.
Jackie McGriff:I feel like.
Jackie McGriff:I don't know, I'm like, okay, I'm no longer.
Jackie McGriff:I'm just going to listen.
Jackie McGriff:Talk about this.
Jackie McGriff:In talking about the collective.
Jackie McGriff:So, of course, thinking about the collective.
Jackie McGriff:Thinking about building community within the diaspora, as I'm sure we've all said before and will continue to say throughout our lives, is that we are not a monolith yet.
Jackie McGriff:The thing that we all have in common is that we are black in America.
Jackie McGriff:I believe that's actually a direct quote from Gabrielle in the film.
Kim Smith:I'm gonna take your word for it.
Jackie McGriff:How do we continue to build community within the diaspora?
Jackie McGriff:What does that look like to you?
Jackie McGriff:What does that not look like to you?
Gabrielle Branigan:I was going to say bell rooks.
Gabrielle Branigan:Bell hooks.
Gabrielle Branigan:Excuse me.
Gabrielle Branigan:That's my favorite person ever.
Gabrielle Branigan:But bell hooks wrote in her book all about Love, that there is no better place to learn the art of loving than in community.
Gabrielle Branigan:And so, for me, that's just what I envision when I think about community.
Gabrielle Branigan:The love that's there and also just like love for self brings me to the table to want to be in community with other people.
Gabrielle Branigan:We may not be a monolith, but I strongly believe we have shared experiences.
Gabrielle Branigan:We saw that at the table during the filming.
Gabrielle Branigan:Right.
Gabrielle Branigan:As folks were.
Gabrielle Branigan:Oh, I'VE had that childhood experience or wait, that happened for you?
Gabrielle Branigan:This happened for me in this way.
Gabrielle Branigan:And I think having love for myself lets me know that I need to be in community or the people that look like me.
Gabrielle Branigan:That's loving myself too, is making myself come to the table with other people.
Gabrielle Branigan:And so that's what it really looks like for me.
Gabrielle Branigan:Community is not something that's in isolation from one another.
Tiffany Porter:Self care is community care.
Gabrielle Branigan:Yes, yes, thank you.
Tiffany Porter:Can you read the question again?
Jackie McGriff:I was like, oh, no, it's all good.
Jackie McGriff:How do we continue to build community within the diaspora?
Jackie McGriff:What does that look like to you?
Jackie McGriff:What does that not look like to you?
Tiffany Porter:It looks like listening to people.
Tiffany Porter:I think we do a lot of talking at people and not actually sitting with them and listening to them and taking time to break bread with them.
Tiffany Porter:When I'm community building, I'm not just there for a day.
Tiffany Porter:I'm there for the rest of whenever we're talking.
Tiffany Porter:I am also there by email, by phone, by text.
Tiffany Porter:Being able to listen to other experiences and also not judging them.
Tiffany Porter:I think that's a.
Tiffany Porter:I think people skip over that part because I sit with all different types of folks.
Tiffany Porter:I don't walk past anybody.
Tiffany Porter:And it's, it's humanity for me.
Tiffany Porter:It's easy.
Tiffany Porter:That's what you're supposed to.
Tiffany Porter:But I don't see a lot of people doing that.
Tiffany Porter:And they don't.
Tiffany Porter:I know my neighbors, I go out of, I'll be like, hey, how you doing?
Tiffany Porter:I'm Tiffany.
Tiffany Porter:You know, I make sure.
Tiffany Porter:Because why am I living next to people?
Tiffany Porter:I don't know who the hell they are?
Tiffany Porter:Like, when did we start doing that?
Tiffany Porter:And so how I started building community is just holding my events where we can sit and break bread and talk and laugh and dance and bring some black joy back to it.
Tiffany Porter:And not just, you know, we have struggles, we're gonna talk about them.
Tiffany Porter:But tomorrow, like, let's enjoy the time, let's enjoy each other.
Tiffany Porter:I mean, that's things that work for me.
Tiffany Porter:And that's how I started, you know, just building more community, folks.
Jackie McGriff:Yeah.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And I think community, to your point, Tiffany, it's about inclusion.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And so being black in America is also about rejecting becoming Americanized, if that makes sense.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Because to be Americanized to me is the closer you are to the white experience of wealth, of professional titles, the closer you are to that experience, the more likely the broader society is to accept you.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And so incomes, the anti blackness and incomes class.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And so what community is not.
Dr. Katrina Overby:It is not division.
Dr. Katrina Overby:It is inclusion, regardless of economics, regardless of sexuality.
Dr. Katrina Overby:It is being able to embrace all of our blackness, regardless of where you fare economically or in any of the things that I mentioned.
Jackie McGriff:Absolutely.
Jackie McGriff:I'm going to jump in with another question.
Jackie McGriff:I just, like, thought of off at the top of my head, but after filming, because we're talking all about community building, community and what that looks like and inclusion and especially just having more of these conversations and everything after we wrapped.
Jackie McGriff:Kim, you made a beeline towards me after filming.
Jackie McGriff:And, yeah, I don't know if you remember this, but you came right over to me.
Jackie McGriff:You were like, when are we doing this again?
Jackie McGriff:When are we doing this again?
Jackie McGriff:Whatever you need, whatever it.
Jackie McGriff:Like, what.
Jackie McGriff:When are we going to, like, do this kind of thing?
Jackie McGriff:We need more of these conversations, more of these discussions.
Jackie McGriff:And so, like, in thinking about that, I was like, okay, do we.
Jackie McGriff:Do we make another film?
Jackie McGriff:Do we make it a series?
Jackie McGriff:Like what?
Jackie McGriff:Like, what do we do?
Jackie McGriff:But I guess, like, my question, you know, for you, and I mean all of you here is like, with these conversations, what does that.
Jackie McGriff:I guess what.
Jackie McGriff:What does that look like?
Jackie McGriff:We're thinking about, you know, of course, like, doing more screenings and doing.
Jackie McGriff:Doing these screenings and panel discussions in, like, more and more cities, you know, because, of course, what we are all talking about, what you're all talking about in the film isn't specific to just black Rajastarians.
Jackie McGriff:I mean, we're talking about being black in America.
Jackie McGriff:So this is communities across the U.S.
Jackie McGriff:so I guess to you, like, as far as having these conversations, what do you see as a goal or, like, you know, in having.
Jackie McGriff:In having these conversations and everything, or continue to have these.
Jackie McGriff:What does that look like to you?
Jackie McGriff:I guess, yeah, I think having the.
Gabrielle Branigan:Opportunity for an intervention with the youth or engagement with youth around the topic.
Gabrielle Branigan:I think how they express being black in America may difference from how we are discussing it with each other.
Gabrielle Branigan:And I think understanding how they are perceiving themselves in the world right now is different because black culture is so tangible on TikTok, on Instagram, and people really don't have a reference for where a lot of these cultural references and nuances come from.
Gabrielle Branigan:And I think we'd be interested to hear how young black people in our cities and in our schools think about being black in America.
Gabrielle Branigan:So whether there's an opportunity for students to sit down at a table with each other and now there's a younger conversation.
Gabrielle Branigan:Right.
Gabrielle Branigan:This conversation could have happened across some 20s and teens and on down, you know, and so what.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Yeah.
Gabrielle Branigan:What does that look like for them?
Gabrielle Branigan:So that would be something that I would find cool not to put that on you all, but I think.
Gabrielle Branigan:Stay tuned, because we're intervention, right?
Jackie McGriff:Oh, yeah, we're definitely thinking about that and reaching out to.
Jackie McGriff:Already in talks with, like, black student unions.
Jackie McGriff:So.
Gabrielle Branigan:Amazing.
Gabrielle Branigan:Amazing.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And I think we should put it on you, Jackie, because I made a beeline to you.
Jackie McGriff:She was determined.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Yes.
Dr. Katrina Overby:I listened my feelings.
Dr. Katrina Overby:You brought all of this up.
Dr. Katrina Overby:You put all of this on the table.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Now what are you going to do with it?
Dr. Katrina Overby:And so you do have a responsibility.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Like, I'm looking to.
Dr. Katrina Overby:For the podcast on anti blackness.
Dr. Katrina Overby:I'm looking for the podcast on being black while lgbtq.
Dr. Katrina Overby:I'm looking for.
Dr. Katrina Overby:I'm looking for it all.
Dr. Katrina Overby:There's no one doing this, Jackie.
Gabrielle Branigan:Yes.
Gabrielle Branigan:Black and deaf, black and disabled, black and white.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Yes.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Yes.
Dr. Katrina Overby:You've got a responsibility now, but you put it on your own shirt.
Tiffany Porter:Oh, my God.
Gabrielle Branigan:This is being black, too.
Gabrielle Branigan:Being like, Ashley, sis, that is on you.
Gabrielle Branigan:Exactly.
Gabrielle Branigan:Sorry, sis.
Gabrielle Branigan:I am Ashley.
Gabrielle Branigan:Go say that's your response.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And I'm certainly gonna go home and search for a dissertation.
Jackie McGriff:Like I said.
Jackie McGriff:Katrina's dissertation will be in the show notes.
Jackie McGriff:Y'all can go.
Jackie McGriff:Cause I definitely read it.
Dr. Katrina Overby:We got work to do.
Jackie McGriff:Yes, absolutely.
Jackie McGriff:And no.
Jackie McGriff:And I absolutely hear that, Kim, because I am constantly quoting Nina Simone.
Jackie McGriff:She's like, artists are supposed to be reflective of the times.
Jackie McGriff:And so it is our responsibility, especially as filmmakers, you know, we have such a huge.
Jackie McGriff:We have such a huge responsibility.
Jackie McGriff:And, you know, in the way that we were talking about framing earlier, framing people's stories, showing, you know, people and telling their stories the way that they want them told, being responsible for that and making sure that it's not.
Jackie McGriff:It is.
Jackie McGriff:It is them in their full.
Jackie McGriff:Like, however they're coming in front of the camera, that's how we want them portrayed on camera and not with any hidden sort of agenda.
Jackie McGriff:We know we want what you have to say fully up there.
Jackie McGriff:And then to also, you know, also being inclusive and remembering the people who may not be represented.
Jackie McGriff:Right.
Jackie McGriff:Like, in front of the camera.
Jackie McGriff:Right.
Jackie McGriff:So we had.
Jackie McGriff:I mean, originally we had.
Jackie McGriff:We did have more men that also were there.
Jackie McGriff:And then at the last minute, like, a couple, like, one of them got sick, and then they had conflicts or whatever.
Jackie McGriff:So, of course, we are always grateful for Taurus, but, like, to have.
Jackie McGriff:Have more people, like, involved in the discussion with different backgrounds, with different identities.
Dr. Katrina Overby:That's right.
Jackie McGriff:And so to continue to have these Conversations where there are people from all over the diaspora, but also with other identities, I think is also important as well.
Jackie McGriff:So.
Jackie McGriff:Oh, yes, we're definitely going to have that.
Jackie McGriff:Especially having the youth, especially having, you know.
Jackie McGriff:Yes, we.
Jackie McGriff:These are all always the things in the back of our heads.
Jackie McGriff:And so, yes, just again.
Jackie McGriff:And also, I think it's also accountability, because if you're going to talk about blackness, you need to have as many people involved in the conversation as possible.
Jackie McGriff:So.
Jackie McGriff:Absolutely.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Kim, thank you.
Jackie McGriff:Absolutely.
Jackie McGriff:Thank you.
Jackie McGriff:Okay, so a couple.
Jackie McGriff:Just a couple other things, because, of course, we could keep going.
Jackie McGriff:Like I said, I can keep listening to y'all forever, but of course, people don't have that kind of time.
Jackie McGriff:So on this podcast, we often talk about the representation in movies that we'd like to see.
Jackie McGriff:What does authentic representation mean to you, and what kind of representation would you like to see in movies, or are you seeing in movies already?
Tiffany Porter:I want to see bigger black women.
Tiffany Porter:Body shaped like mine.
Jackie McGriff:Or bigger, let's say that.
Tiffany Porter:Being lead roles.
Gabrielle Branigan:Yes.
Tiffany Porter:Being in queer relationships.
Tiffany Porter:Lead roles.
Tiffany Porter:I'm sorry, I just want to see more of that.
Tiffany Porter:More of me and people who look like me, people who identify as me, also want to see more visibly disabled people in lead roles.
Tiffany Porter:Yeah, I.
Tiffany Porter:Yeah, I just think we don't.
Tiffany Porter:We talk about dei, but we don't actually live it in no system, I feel like, including film.
Tiffany Porter:So that's what I would like to see more of that.
Dr. Katrina Overby:I have got to talk about what it.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Who plays Annalise Keating?
Dr. Katrina Overby:Viola Davis.
Jackie McGriff:Yes.
Jackie McGriff:Yeah.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And I don't even know what is the name of Murder.
Kim Smith:Coaster.
Jackie McGriff:There is the Shonda Rhimes family.
Dr. Katrina Overby:There is this scene, right, where she has this really hard day.
Dr. Katrina Overby:She's taught a class, she's been in the courtroom, and she comes home.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And so to the naked eye, she's simply getting undressed and ready for bed.
Dr. Katrina Overby:So this black woman who has to show up, commanding respect all the time, she comes home, she takes off her hair.
Dr. Katrina Overby:She takes off, you know, the wig.
Gabrielle Branigan:She took that wig off.
Dr. Katrina Overby:She took that wig off, and then she starts to cry.
Gabrielle Branigan:Yes.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Because she was feeling the pain not only of herself, but her.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Of her community, but in her public Persona.
Dr. Katrina Overby:She could never voice it.
Dr. Katrina Overby:That was the most powerful scene in a movie.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And I want to see more of that.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Because it was real.
Gabrielle Branigan:Yeah, I remember that.
Gabrielle Branigan:No, that wig came off.
Gabrielle Branigan:I was thinking about that, and it was.
Gabrielle Branigan:It was such a moment.
Gabrielle Branigan:It was talked about a lot by black women the next day, and I think they Were grappling with the tension of seeing themselves on screen like that, unabashedly.
Gabrielle Branigan:Right.
Gabrielle Branigan:A lot of times it's like, oh, those are things we do behind.
Jackie McGriff:Right.
Gabrielle Branigan:Closed doors.
Gabrielle Branigan:And to take that scene and do that scene on prime, on primetime television.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Tiffany Porter:When she wiped them eyebrows off, I.
Gabrielle Branigan:Was like, yes, yes.
Dr. Katrina Overby:But she was scrubbing off the makeup with tears, and you could feel the frustration of her.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And this is just my take on it.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Like, wanting to show up every day in her vulnerable self.
Dr. Katrina Overby:But given the nature of all that she has to do and what she's accountable for, she has to show up often and perform and who she goes in front of.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Yes.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And white rubbing it off.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And I was like, yes, honey.
Gabrielle Branigan:I believe.
Gabrielle Branigan:I love nonfiction work.
Gabrielle Branigan:Work that can exceed the limitations and boundaries of what our imaginations are supposed to be.
Gabrielle Branigan:So sometimes I like Afrofuturism and things that leave me questioning the future of blackness at the intersections of society.
Gabrielle Branigan:And.
Gabrielle Branigan:What's this other word?
Gabrielle Branigan:At the intersections, I think of society.
Gabrielle Branigan:Oh, and technology and technological limitations.
Gabrielle Branigan:And I'm thinking.
Gabrielle Branigan:I think I'm thinking specifically of one film because I wrote about it, Spike Lee's film, See youe Yesterday, because it's about two black youth who are urban, but they build a time machine.
Jackie McGriff:Right.
Gabrielle Branigan:Something crazy in a hopes to escape someone that they know a loved one from being murdered by the police.
Gabrielle Branigan:And so it's also at the intersection of police brutality, at the intersection of, you know, this film.
Gabrielle Branigan:What's that film category that sort of like butterfly effect types of films.
Gabrielle Branigan:If we could go back in time and change one thing with this matter, with this matter and what those questions of what those kinds of films leave us questioning about our future?
Gabrielle Branigan:Right.
Gabrielle Branigan:If technology continues to advance, why hasn't our ability or society's ability to mitigate and minimize police brutality?
Jackie McGriff:You know, that's another.
Gabrielle Branigan:Why is that still here now, 100 years in the future with time machines?
Gabrielle Branigan:Right.
Gabrielle Branigan:And so I like the things that nonfiction brings to the table as well.
Dr. Katrina Overby:When you talk about urban young boys building a time machine, imagine if we could get our hands on the Kia boys who are out here stealing cars.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Can you imagine how smart they would be with, like, engineering?
Gabrielle Branigan:Yes.
Gabrielle Branigan:Yes.
Gabrielle Branigan:Can you imagine with time, space and education.
Gabrielle Branigan:Education and support and resources.
Gabrielle Branigan:Some of the smartest among us can do, you know, sadly, some of the worst things to the community, but taking the time to redirect those talents elsewhere.
Gabrielle Branigan:I think a lot of us have had some redirection.
Gabrielle Branigan:You know, in my grade school teacher she talks a lot.
Gabrielle Branigan:Well, baby, I'm in communications now.
Gabrielle Branigan:Yeah, I talk a lot, honey, I do.
Gabrielle Branigan:Let's redirect that next time.
Gabrielle Branigan:Instead of making me feel like I was the yapper of the Midwest, were you bossy, too?
Kim Smith:Did you get that one?
Kim Smith:You were bossy with my cousins, my brothers.
Tiffany Porter:Yeah.
Gabrielle Branigan:Like, bossy.
Gabrielle Branigan:What are you doing?
Jackie McGriff:I'm a leader.
Gabrielle Branigan:You're a leader, right?
Kim Smith:No, I'm not bossy.
Gabrielle Branigan:Right.
Gabrielle Branigan:How do we redirect those?
Kim Smith:And I think that's more of what I want to see, is that redirection.
Jackie McGriff:Right.
Kim Smith:And that vulnerability, the idea that black women in the United States carry so much and there's an armor.
Kim Smith:So I know exactly the scene you're describing.
Kim Smith:And to me, when I watch that, she's taken off her armor.
Kim Smith:That's what she's taking off.
Dr. Katrina Overby:That's it.
Dr. Katrina Overby:That's it.
Kim Smith:And more films where there's not armor.
Kim Smith:More films where people are showing up and they're vulnerable and they are who they are or shows or whatever.
Gabrielle Branigan:Right.
Kim Smith:Whatever the media is, because that's real, and that's what people connect to.
Kim Smith:That's.
Kim Smith:I think I'm gonna bring it back now.
Kim Smith:That's what I experienced when we were filming is nobody.
Kim Smith:Our armor was left at the door, and we all sat down, and then we were able to have those conversations and share that.
Kim Smith:And I think it was so emotional for me because that it doesn't happen.
Kim Smith:You don't see it.
Kim Smith:There's no script, there's no protocol.
Kim Smith:There's no process.
Kim Smith:I don't have any habit of how to interact in that way, because I think especially black women in the United States show up with armor to every single space that they're in.
Kim Smith:And there are so few spaces where we show up ourselves.
Jackie McGriff:Right?
Gabrielle Branigan:Yeah.
Tiffany Porter:Can I also say, like, when I go see movies, I usually go to escape from reality, because I'm in reality.
Tiffany Porter:I'm living with loved ones getting murdered.
Tiffany Porter:I'm living with domestic violence.
Tiffany Porter:I'm living in poverty.
Tiffany Porter:So when I go to movies, I don't want to see that.
Tiffany Porter:And especially I don't want to see black people going through that.
Tiffany Porter:I think just like school movies show a lot of black struggle, and I want to see more black joy.
Tiffany Porter:I want to see more.
Tiffany Porter:You know what I'm saying?
Tiffany Porter:Like, just rom coms for black people or with them in it, you know, being lead roles, just science fiction.
Tiffany Porter:I love me a good science fiction.
Tiffany Porter:I love me.
Tiffany Porter:You know, like, I just want all of that so I can Go and escape and not leave with like heaviness.
Jackie McGriff:Right.
Tiffany Porter:Cause I grew up with, you know, boys in the hood.
Tiffany Porter:I grew up with all those things, but those things was my reality too.
Tiffany Porter:Like my cousins was actually getting shot, you know, like I.
Tiffany Porter:So seeing that on screen and living that and then having to resee it again, if it's just traumatizing.
Tiffany Porter:So I, yeah, I want to, I want to see some more positive things about especially black Americans on film.
Jackie McGriff:Yeah.
Jackie McGriff:If anyone is any of our listeners are out there and you're holding on to a screenplay for a, like a, like a steampunk themed film with the black woman at the, at the head, can you please contact me?
Jackie McGriff:I'm@infourvoicesproject.com because some dissertations.
Jackie McGriff:Yes, we have to connect, Katrina.
Jackie McGriff:Yes, that's what I've been wanting to see.
Jackie McGriff:And I resonate with all of that.
Jackie McGriff:Again, we were talking about taking off the armor when you're talking about being fully yourself unapologetically on screen.
Jackie McGriff:We were talking about, you know, that again, like, that's also too.
Jackie McGriff:What got me into films was that escapism.
Jackie McGriff:Right.
Jackie McGriff:I could go and people were going off to these like far off lands.
Jackie McGriff:Right.
Jackie McGriff:Or in a galaxy far, far away.
Jackie McGriff:But like it was never us.
Jackie McGriff:Like we, we don't get to have that.
Jackie McGriff:All we get to have is struggle.
Jackie McGriff:We don't get to have joy.
Jackie McGriff:You know, we don't get to have these like fantastical adventures.
Jackie McGriff:So I would love to see more of that.
Jackie McGriff:Okay, last but not least, because again, like, I can hear y'all just, I could just hear this.
Jackie McGriff:Like, I just could have this conversation at all times, all day.
Jackie McGriff:But I wanted to also hear about any upcoming projects or events or businesses or shout outs in general that you'd like to make before we close.
Gabrielle Branigan:I'll go first.
Gabrielle Branigan:My short essay titled Back to our Reclaiming Black Community Care in a Digital World will appear in the magazine Hope wealth, which is a magazine dedicated to empowering bipoc women by providing holistic health and wellness content that informs, inspires and uplifts.
Gabrielle Branigan:And finally, in my off time, I'm a DJ and a karaoke host on Thursday and Friday night.
Gabrielle Branigan:You scratch and everything.
Gabrielle Branigan:Local minority owned bars and lounges in town.
Gabrielle Branigan:And my DJ name is Spin Dr.
Gabrielle Branigan:Ko.
Kim Smith:Yes.
Gabrielle Branigan:So follow me on IG at Dr.
Gabrielle Branigan:R.
Gabrielle Branigan:Spindoctorko Ko08.
Kim Smith:Yeah, you had me at scratching the mix.
Gabrielle Branigan:Oh, I'm learning.
Gabrielle Branigan:I'm a beginner at scratching.
Gabrielle Branigan:I was in radio back in undergrad and so it's coming full circle to be back in like music in this way and actually learning the, the art of DJing.
Gabrielle Branigan:That.
Jackie McGriff:Thank you.
Jackie McGriff:Yes.
Jackie McGriff:Love that for you.
Tiffany Porter:So I feel like I, I'm saying, like, tell me why you mad, son?
Tiffany Porter:So what we're working on is my organization, our education part is.
Tiffany Porter:I cannot say the education system is hell.
Tiffany Porter:We all know that it was intentionally built racistly.
Tiffany Porter:And Monroe County.
Tiffany Porter:Count your days.
Tiffany Porter:I'm just saying, especially a lot of these suburban schools.
Tiffany Porter:The amount of discrimination that is happening, the amount of parents I have to console is just.
Tiffany Porter:Is daunting.
Tiffany Porter:It's exhausting.
Tiffany Porter:But I stopped telling people, you know, because I've collaborated with these schools for about three, four years and I feel like they have been playing in our faces.
Tiffany Porter:Dei, they have some of the best DEI people in these districts and they have no power.
Tiffany Porter:And it's.
Tiffany Porter:I.
Tiffany Porter:When we're at a time where people are getting suspended from one school year to the next to the end of or halfway through the school year of the next year, and they're black kids and they're getting these harsh punishments like, come on now.
Jackie McGriff:Right.
Tiffany Porter:And it's going all the way up to the commissioner and still nothing.
Tiffany Porter:So I am very frustrated and I'm now telling parents to speak out because when you don't, other kids are being abused in the system and traumatized every day.
Tiffany Porter:And also we're speaking out so we can collect data to sue.
Tiffany Porter:We need to sue.
Tiffany Porter:Can you curse on us?
Tiffany Porter:Yeah, no cursing.
Jackie McGriff:I mean, it's whatever you need to.
Tiffany Porter:Say, hell or okay, we sue their asses at this point.
Tiffany Porter:It's enough.
Tiffany Porter:And like I said, I just had a six year old that was told they couldn't have any breakfast and didn't have breakfast or lunch.
Gabrielle Branigan:That's unacceptable.
Tiffany Porter:Okay.
Tiffany Porter:Six year old baby.
Tiffany Porter:Like, I'm not talking.
Tiffany Porter:These stories are disgusting.
Tiffany Porter:And at this point, there's no humanity in the education system.
Tiffany Porter:I see.
Tiffany Porter:And especially for black and brown kids.
Tiffany Porter:And it's time for people to actually take a stand and to stop letting this happen.
Tiffany Porter:And so that's what we're trying to do, is get the word out our organization is working.
Tiffany Porter:We have collaborated with two education law firms so we can collect this data and start holding these school districts accountable.
Tiffany Porter:And that's the only way.
Tiffany Porter:And then to New York State accountable.
Jackie McGriff:Yes.
Tiffany Porter:Because that's their boss.
Tiffany Porter:So I.
Tiffany Porter:That's just my.
Gabrielle Branigan:Thank you for doing that work.
Tiffany Porter:Yeah, thank you.
Jackie McGriff:That's being blessed.
Jackie McGriff:And the birds and accomplices.
Gabrielle Branigan:Thank you for doing that work, right?
Jackie McGriff:Yes.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Yes, Tiffany.
Jackie McGriff:Anyone else, Any shout outs, businesses, projects, upcoming events?
Dr. Katrina Overby:Well, an upcoming event you can email your city council persons.
Dr. Katrina Overby:We have the opportunity to pass an expanded version of good cause eviction.
Dr. Katrina Overby:We have some of the highest rates of evictions in the actually in the state.
Dr. Katrina Overby:So please email your city council person, tell them you need to see not the basic form of evict of good cause because that basic legislation would leave out over 37,000 renters.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And so we want the expanded version of good cause.
Dr. Katrina Overby:That's the opportunity.
Dr. Katrina Overby:And my shout out is to you, Jackie.
Jackie McGriff:Oh, awesome.
Dr. Katrina Overby:Thank you just for everything you have done and everything you will do.
Jackie McGriff:Oh man.
Jackie McGriff:And on that emotional note, thank you, Carol.
Jackie McGriff:Thank you all to our guests, to our listeners.
Jackie McGriff:So Being Black in America is our latest documentary short film where we gathered a few of our friends to answer the question for themselves and to discuss with each other, what does it mean to you to be black in America?
Jackie McGriff:We'd love to bring this film to a local community center, library, place of worship, boardroom or theater near you.
Jackie McGriff:So if you're interested in hosting a screening, please visit ourvoicesproject.com host BBIA that's being black in America and fill out the screening form.
Jackie McGriff:We also have that link in our show Notes for us, it's both about the storytellers, their stories, building community with changemakers and direct action towards racial equity.
Jackie McGriff:Visit ourvoicesproject.com hostbia to learn more information about hosting Being Black in America.
Jackie McGriff:Thank you so much for your support of our Voices project and our Representation in Cinema podcast.
Jackie McGriff:You can find us on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter because no one's calling it x TikTok and@our voicesproject.com that's a fact.
Jackie McGriff:Literally no on that one.
Jackie McGriff:No one on that app calls it.
Jackie McGriff:And you can find out more information about what we do.
Jackie McGriff:Sign up for our newsletter there too to be the first to get notifications about podcast episodes and new projects.
Jackie McGriff:You can listen to this episode and others under Representation in Cinema on any of the platforms on any of the platforms that you get your podcasts.
Jackie McGriff:Thank you again for listening.
Dr. Katrina Overby:This has been a presentation of the Lunchadore podcast network work.
