No Other Land
Today, we're discussing the Oscar-Award winning documentary film, No Other Land, with First Generation Palestinian social justice activist, writer, speaker, and educator, Muna Najib.
No Other Land is a documentary that centers Palestinian activist Basel Adra, who records the destruction of his hometown, Masafer Yatta in the Occupied West Bank, by Israeli forces aiming to turn the area into a military training zone; the film highlights the harsh reality of displacement faced by Palestinians, with Adra documenting the demolitions of homes, schools, and the filling of water wells with cement, all while forming an unlikely bond with Israeli journalist Yuval Abraham who helps him document his struggle against the occupation.
The film is co-directed by Palestinians and Israelis, Basel Adra, Yuval Abraham, Hamdan Ballal, and Rachel Szor. No Other Land was awarded Best Documentary Feature at the Oscars back in February this year and still doesn’t have a US distributor. In more recent news, on top of the genocide that continues to unfold in Palestine perpetuated by the Israeli government—and by extension the United States as well as other Western powers—Hamdan Ballal was attacked by Israeli citizens and is now currently recovering. “Israel” has continued to bombard Gaza and arm its citizens terrorizing Palestinians living in the West Bank—including Masafer Yatta—on top of committing many additional war crimes against the Palestinians.
Please note that the events in the film happen before October 2023. It’s all part of a larger campaign to occupy and ethnically cleanse Indigenous Palestinians from their lands.
SO, if you haven’t watched the film already, it's now available to stream at https://supportmasaferyatta.com until May 9 as part of a fundraiser. We encourage you to donate, watch it and then come back to listen to our podcast. From here on out though, we’ll be discussing the film in depth so SPOILERS AHEAD and as always, you have been warned.
Muna Najib is a first-generation Palestinian social justice activist, writer, speaker and educator. She has been advocating and teaching about Palestine and other marginalized communities for well over a decade. She is a graduate of University at Buffalo with a degree in English, Third world literature and African American studies. She believes in fighting for full land back for all indigenous peoples which includes Palestine’s full liberation and sovereignty from the river to the sea.
Clip Referenced: https://youtu.be/3gzo7PiFiaM?si=JdoEpz-1O8UjPFDc&t=36
Links referenced in this episode:
- Our Voices Project: https://ourvoicesproject.com/
- Dogwoof Releasing: https://releasing.dogwoof.com/no-other-land
- Palestine Film Institute: palestinefilminstitute.org
- Witness Palestine Film Festival: https://wpff.us/
- Reel Bad Arabs (Documentary): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPxak6lFd-I
- Kanopy - Palestinian Films: https://www.kanopy.com/en/category/14590
Mentioned in this episode:
Our Voices Project - Land Acknowledgement
Mind of Magnus
Check out Mind of Magnus at magnusapollo.com, and leave him factoids at 585-310-2473! https://mind-of-magnus.captivate.fm
Transcript
Hello listeners, it's Jackie McGriff, your host on today's Representation in Cinema podcast episode where we're diving into the film no Other Land.
Speaker A:Now before we get into today's episode, we want to remind folks that you can listen to previous episodes on Spotify or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.
Speaker A:You can also learn about our films on our website@ourvoicesproject.com podcast.
Speaker A:If you'd like to be a guest on the podcast, you can email me@infourvoicesproject.com Please note that while we welcome all, we prioritize hearing from black, Brown and indigenous folks, especially since this podcast is about highlighting the films telling authentic and multifaceted stories of black, Brown and Native peoples.
Speaker A:Now let's introduce our guest today, Muna Najeeb.
Speaker A:Muna is a first generation Palestinian social justice activist, writer, speaker and educator.
Speaker A:She has been advocating and teaching about Palestine and other marginalized communities for well over a decade.
Speaker A:She is a graduate of University at Buffalo with a degree in English, Third World Literature and African American Studies.
Speaker A:She believes in fighting for full land back for all indigenous peoples which includes Palestine's full liberation and sovereignty from the river to the sea.
Speaker A:Welcome UNA Hello.
Speaker B:Thank you, thank you Jackie Salaam everyone.
Speaker B:Very happy to be here with with you guys today.
Speaker A:All right, thank you and thank you for being here.
Speaker A:Now let's get on to today's film so no Other Land is a documentary that centers Palestinian activist Basil Adra, who records the destruction of his hometown, Masafi Yada, in the occupied west bank by Israeli forces aiming to turn the area into a military training zone.
Speaker A:The film highlights the harsh reality of displacement faced by Palestinians, with Adra documenting the demolitions of homes, schools and the filling of water wells with cement, all while forming an unlikely bond with Israeli journalist Yuval Abraham, who helps him document his struggle against the occupation.
Speaker A:The film is co directed by Palestinians and Israelis Basil Adra, Yuval Abraham, Hamdan Bilal and Rachel Soar.
Speaker A:No Other Land was awarded Best Documentary Feature at the Oscars back in February this year and still doesn't have a US Distributor.
Speaker A:In more recent news, on top of the genocide that continues to unfold in Palestine, perpetuated by the Israeli government and by extension the United States as well as other Western powers, Hamdan Bilal was attacked by Israeli citizens and is now currently recovering.
Speaker A:Israel has continued to bombard Gaza and arm its citizens, terrorizing Palestinians living in the west bank, including Massafar Yata, on top of committing many additional war crimes against the Palestinians.
Speaker A: film happened before October: Speaker A:It's all part of a larger campaign to occupy and ethnically cleanse indigenous Palestinians from their lands.
Speaker A:So if you haven't already watched the film again, because it's still without a US distributor, you can, you can visit Dog Wolf.
Speaker A:Dog Wolf, that's D o g w o o f.com for links to Sky Store, Virgin Media and other links to be able to purchase or rent the film, to be able to watch.
Speaker A:For today's discussion, we will also have a link in the show notes if you care to sail the high seas, if you know what I mean, don't tell anybody.
Speaker A:So you can watch the film.
Speaker A:But from here on out, we will be discussing the film in depth.
Speaker A:So spoilers ahead.
Speaker A:And as always, you have been warned.
Speaker A:All right, so getting into the discussion, first and foremost, Muna, what were your initial thoughts after watching the film and what immediately came to mind for you?
Speaker B:So I guess even before watching this film.
Speaker B:So like you mentioned, Jackie, unfortunately this film is not easily accessible.
Speaker B:We happen to be fortunate enough, enough to have an independent cinema here in Rochester.
Speaker B:So the little has been amazing at showing this film several times throughout the months, throughout recent months.
Speaker B:And they did show it again.
Speaker B:They were trying to show, I think a lot of the Oscar nominated films before the Oscars, and that was obviously one of them.
Speaker B:So they did show it again.
Speaker B:And that's when I decided to see it.
Speaker B:It was a few weeks before the Oscars.
Speaker B:I, I wanted to make sure that I saw it right.
Speaker B:Yeah, before then.
Speaker B:So what were my initial thoughts?
Speaker B:Probably it's always more also like a feeling too.
Speaker B:Anytime I, anytime I watch a documentary, you know, about Palestine, especially when Palestinians themselves are telling the story, when it's actually happening to them.
Speaker B:So in this film, you know, we see Basil and his family and his entire village from the very beginning being driven off of their land, their, their home being dispossessed, demolitions happening in their village, running away from soldiers, armed soldiers who are openly attacking them.
Speaker B:Openly, openly attacking them with the cameras in their hand.
Speaker B:And especially because they have cameras in their hand.
Speaker B:Especially.
Speaker B:And specifically the Palestinians.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:You know, Yuval was there as well.
Speaker B:Obviously he had a hand in documenting what was happening, but it was really, you know, Basil at the forefront of all the danger and him running away from the, you know, you see that in the documentary, running away from the soldiers almost getting shot repeatedly, family members of, of people of his family who were shot on camera documenting that, you know, seeing like the moments where he's, you know, especially when he was, like, laying on the ground, which is the front cover of the film, reflecting on his life and, you know, really uncertain what the future holds, if there is a future for him, for his family.
Speaker B:Yeah, and that's those, like, moments of.
Speaker B:Of.
Speaker B:Of slight despair, really.
Speaker B:And, you know, when we see that in the film too, when he's having those reflections.
Speaker B:Also with Yuval, there's moments of that when Yuval gets to come to Masafiriyatta and then leave to go back home.
Speaker B:You know, Basil obviously doesn't have that option.
Speaker B:His family doesn't have that option.
Speaker B:And as the documentary goes on, it's showing his family being forcibly, you know, their home is taken away and they decide to live in a cave, basically, that was there.
Speaker B:It was either that or move to these overcrowded apartment complexes in different area.
Speaker B:So they decided they didn't want to do that, and they.
Speaker B:Yeah, they lived in a cave for some time.
Speaker B:Including one of his family members that was.
Speaker B:And we see that in the film who was critically hurt, who was paralyzed from the neck down, and, you know, had no help.
Speaker B:And it was really on.
Speaker B:On his family, and I believe it was his mother, who is this elder, and the elders who really had very little help trying to take care.
Speaker B:Care of this family member.
Speaker B:And it was just them depending on.
Speaker B:On each other.
Speaker B:And you see that amongst the family.
Speaker B:But, yeah, it's not enough, you know, And I feel like with many of the documentaries, it's always a similar feeling of, you know, this frustration, the sadness, just the knowing that the injustice is happening and, and feeling this great, you know, this heavy feeling of just how unfair this is, how unfair is it that, you know, Palestinians are so dehumanized that in order to be taken seriously, they.
Speaker B:They have to try and show the world, you know, the.
Speaker B:This extreme violence, including showing actual family members that are dying on camera.
Speaker B:And the response is still very little to none, to nothing, you know, and we do see that in the documentary as well.
Speaker B:Yeah, so it's always this, like, feeling of, you know, it's necessary to watch these films.
Speaker B:It's necessary to know about these people and their stories firsthand.
Speaker B:It's very important, especially considering that Palestinian voices and stories are being erased, have been erased for so long, for.
Speaker B:For decades, you know, and it.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's unfortunate.
Speaker B:I mean, it's.
Speaker B:And it's extremely frustrating, especially when you're trying to reach people in the west to some degree, because obviously this is being perpetuated by.
Speaker B:By our tax dollars.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:So speaking of reaching.
Speaker A:Reaching folks in the West, I mean, of course, as long as this has been happening, right, there have been Palestinians and, you know, getting their stories out, and there have been people who, you know, have been listening, I think, in.
Speaker A:But of course, it's, as you were saying, like, it's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's not enough.
Speaker A:You know, people have the information and they may be telling people, but then it's largely getting suppressed because, of course, it's something that, you know, our government doesn't want other people to know.
Speaker A:And then at the same time, even when you do have, like.
Speaker A:You do have, like, this mass.
Speaker A:I mean, now, like, what we're seeing, like, with what we're seeing, you know, we are now connected to.
Speaker A:And unfortunately, the number is getting smaller and smaller.
Speaker A:But the number of journalists, you know, who.
Speaker A:That we are seeing who are still reporting, Right.
Speaker A:Even with.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And even, you know, even after.
Speaker B:Well, they're getting.
Speaker B:Well, because they're being targeted, right?
Speaker A:Because they're being targeted because of their.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Because of their identity, because of their messaging.
Speaker A:And, you know, a lot of us, right, who may not have been paying attention before weren't getting that.
Speaker A:Those.
Speaker A:These stories weren't getting through.
Speaker A:We're now paying attention.
Speaker A:And still with all of this, they still continue to be targeted.
Speaker A:Civilians are getting targeted.
Speaker A:We're seeing this genocide continue to unfold with no one seemingly holding them to the.
Speaker A:Telling them to stop or making them stop.
Speaker A:And then you have something like the Oscars, right?
Speaker A:Where it's brought before.
Speaker A:I mean, if you're talking.
Speaker A:If you want to talk about a huge, huge stage, like, we're talking about the Oscars, this is how.
Speaker A:This is how independent film, you know, us as independent filmmakers, like, something like that is something that at least in our mind's eye or what we've at least been taught is, like, if you can get your story onto this big stage, you know, there's gonna be more exposure, there's gonna be more people who pay attention to not only the story that you're.
Speaker A:You're putting out there, but then also, you know, you as people, you as filmmakers, you as artists and everything that you do and what you stand for, right?
Speaker A:So this.
Speaker A:And of course, it's not the only one nominated, not the only Palestinian focus film nominated.
Speaker A:But.
Speaker A:And we'll.
Speaker A:We'll get into that a little bit further into the podcast, but I want to go back to the night of the Oscars.
Speaker A:So they're calling nominations for best documentary feature, no Other Land gets called.
Speaker A:As soon as you hear.
Speaker A:As soon as you hear the title.
Speaker A:What is going on through your mind when no Other Land was announced?
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:And I messaged you that night, too, because I knew you were watching.
Speaker B:I was watching.
Speaker B:I knew you were watching, Jackie.
Speaker B:And I was like, you were definitely one of the first people that, you know, I thought of.
Speaker B:So I think.
Speaker B:And you're right.
Speaker B:So the Oscars is a mainstream world stage.
Speaker B:You know, it is one of the main mainstream world stages.
Speaker B:It is Hollywood.
Speaker B:It does feel a little strange because Hollywood is known.
Speaker B:And especially with the Oscars, there is a history there again of.
Speaker B:Well, if we wanted to talk about indigenous folks specifically, also with the indigenous folks here, the indigenous Americans and their history with Hollywood and their erasure, their own films also, kind of, basically, if you want your film to be seen or if you want even a spot in a film as an indigenous person, it's usually.
Speaker B:It comes at a cost.
Speaker B:I'll just say that comes at a cost.
Speaker B:And it's not always, you know, people telling their authentic stories from within their own communities.
Speaker B:There's always, you know, it's usually through a colonizer gaze, through a white gaze, and other things as well.
Speaker B:It's Hollywood.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, it's not always about telling authentic stories, per se.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So there is a.
Speaker B:There is a history of that, I think.
Speaker B:Okay, so with this.
Speaker B:With this specific documentary, and you're right, this is not the first documentary based in Palestine and specifically about this quote, unquote, conflict.
Speaker B:It's an occupation.
Speaker B:Let's be clear.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's an occupation.
Speaker B:It's not the first.
Speaker B:You know, we've had document.
Speaker B:We had the last documentary that was nominated, which was Five Broken Cameras, which was another family that, you know, this other.
Speaker B:It was a.
Speaker B:Another filmmaker, and he was documenting his own experience with his family and who was also facing danger because he was documenting and filming his.
Speaker B:His experiences, you know, in Palestine.
Speaker B:And same with.
Speaker B:With no Other Land.
Speaker B:The only.
Speaker B:One of the main differences, though, with no Other Land is that it is co directed with Israeli directors.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And that comes with its own, you know, criticisms.
Speaker B:And also just.
Speaker B:It does make you wonder, well, is that.
Speaker B:Is that what it sort of takes for a film like this to win an Oscar?
Speaker B:So, like, that was one of the questions.
Speaker B:But, like, back to your question, what was.
Speaker B:I guess my feelings or thoughts?
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:I mean, I was surprised.
Speaker B:It won't.
Speaker B:Part of me.
Speaker B:I mean, I was surprised that it actually won the Oscar.
Speaker B:That, okay, this is going to be interesting.
Speaker B:That's.
Speaker B:That was my second thought.
Speaker B:We're going to have these two young men who, you know, one Palestinian and one who is.
Speaker B:Who identifies as Israeli who, you know, put this together.
Speaker B:And now we're going to see what they have to say.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And it's.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I could also kind of tell within the audience, you know, who was happy and who was kind of like maybe kind of given second glances.
Speaker B:And we also kind of like, we saw Selena Gomez on stage and having a little side chat with Samuel L.
Speaker B:Jackson.
Speaker B:We all kind of wonder what that was about, you know, and it was a little.
Speaker B:That was a little distracting.
Speaker B:But I'm like, okay, what are the.
Speaker B:What are they.
Speaker B:What are they thinking?
Speaker B:That's what I'm thinking.
Speaker B:I'm like, what are they thinking?
Speaker B:What are they saying?
Speaker B:You know, because we do have, you know, those type, those celebrities and whether they spoke out or once spoke out and then took it back and, you know, you have all that sort of thing going on too.
Speaker B:So there's like layers there.
Speaker B:All in a matter of, like this three minute little speech on, you know, on the Oscar stage.
Speaker B:And then finally, you know, when the four people that went up there to accept the award and it was only Yuval and first it was Basil who spoke to accept the award.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And I think, you know, the fact that Basil did say in his, you know, in his end of the speech, I hope that the world can recognize that Palestinian ethnic cleansing needs to.
Speaker B:Needs to stop and needs to end and that he basically said, you know, he has a baby girl now and he doesn't want her to grow up in the same way that he's had to grow up.
Speaker B:And I think that sentiment.
Speaker B:A lot of Palestinians say that and feel that way.
Speaker B:Rightfully so.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Everything he said completely, you know, I think.
Speaker B:Yeah, was.
Speaker B:I think a lot of people, A lot of Palestinians feel that way.
Speaker B:He didn't say the word genocide or anything like that.
Speaker B:I.
Speaker B:Which is interesting, but also, like, you got to understand too.
Speaker B:Like, you could tell this is English is his second.
Speaker B:You know, he.
Speaker B:He's not fluent in English.
Speaker B:You could tell he was.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Trying to really get his words out and words across.
Speaker B:So I was very proud of him for.
Speaker B:It's a brave moment for him, you know, and then when you've all spoke.
Speaker A:Well, here we.
Speaker A:So we have a clip of that speech, if you want to.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Play it for our listeners.
Speaker A:Yeah, the speech that was given that Muna is referring to from the Oscars that night.
Speaker C:Thank you to the academy for the award.
Speaker C:It's such a big honor for the four of us and everybody supported us for this documentary.
Speaker C:About two months ago, I became a father and my hope to my daughter that she will not have to live the same life I'm living now.
Speaker C:Always fearing, always, always fearing settlers, violence, home demolitions and force pill displacements that my community, Massafreeatta, is living and facing every day under the Israeli occupation.
Speaker C:No other land reflect the harsh reality that we have been enduring for decades and still resist.
Speaker C:As we call on the world to take serious actions to stop the injustice and to stop the ethnic cleansing of Palestinian people.
Speaker B:We.
Speaker D:We made this film Palestinians and Israelis, because together our voices are stronger.
Speaker D:We see each other.
Speaker D:The atrocious destruction of Gaza and its people, which must end.
Speaker D:The Israeli hostages brutally taken in the crime of October 7, which must be freed.
Speaker D:When I look at Basel, I see my brother.
Speaker D:But we are unequal.
Speaker D:We live in a regime where I am free under civilian law and Basil is under military laws that destroy his life and he cannot control.
Speaker D:There is a different path, a political solution without ethnic supremacy, with national rights for both of our people.
Speaker D:And I have to say, as I am here, the foreign policy in this country is helping to block this path.
Speaker D:And you know, why can't you see that we are intertwined, that my people can be truly safe if Basel's people are truly free and safe.
Speaker D:There is another way.
Speaker D:It's not too late for life, for the living.
Speaker D:There is no other way.
Speaker D:Thank you.
Speaker D:Rachel Shore, Hamdan Balal Sigabi, Ouda Close Up Initiative Anifabini.
Speaker D:Thank you.
Speaker A:All right, so that was.
Speaker A:That was the speech.
Speaker A:All right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Well, I'd like to actually finish my comment on that.
Speaker A:Go ahead.
Speaker B:Yeah, because, you know, we heard Basset and then when you all comes in, you know, I.
Speaker B:I was not crazy about his end of the speech.
Speaker B:And many, I think Palestinian people within the diaspora and otherwise, I think a lot of people, you know, want to see this as a win.
Speaker B:Right, I get it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You know, because the Oscars is like we said, like, it's a main stage.
Speaker B:It's a world main stage.
Speaker B:And we don't want to just like completely discount this, but, you know, you've all.
Speaker B:First of all, you know, when he.
Speaker B:He talks about how they.
Speaker B:They are unequal and stuff, which is true in the sense that, yes.
Speaker B:The way that they're lives, that.
Speaker B:The way that they're living their lives and what.
Speaker B:I think what's being forced upon Basil is Not what's being forced upon Yuval.
Speaker B:And also like they're just, it's still, I think he, the way that he contextualizes things and you know, as far as his, from his experience and I think his idea of making things better moving forward, I don't completely agree with because I believe in whole incomplete land back like from the river to the sea.
Speaker B:This is an occupation, you know, by, by an occupier over the occupied.
Speaker B:You know, it's not a two side story.
Speaker B:You know, we keep reiterating Palestinians try we shout into the void.
Speaker B:This is not a two sides narrative.
Speaker B:And I think with his, you know, with his speech, it's still there is this sort of two sides, two equal.
Speaker B:Equal.
Speaker B:Ish.
Speaker B:Maybe not totally equal, but still there's two sides and we can coexist just as so long as, you know, the government changes a little bit.
Speaker B:We, whatever the case.
Speaker B:And also, you know, he states that the United States is blocking that path.
Speaker B:Well, the United States isn't just blocking it, it's perpetuating it.
Speaker B:It's not.
Speaker B:It's not blocking it, it's the cause of it.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And I know that's probably, you know, given the time that we're living in and with everything that's happening, that might be like a controversial thing to say or.
Speaker B:But it's the truth.
Speaker B:That is the truth.
Speaker B:And yeah.
Speaker B:And also bringing up, you know, the hostages before the word Gaza was not mentioned, you know.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker B:You know, so again it's.
Speaker B:And we've talked about this, Jackie, in, in another event about the dominant narrative, about the dominant narrative versus the narratives that are unheard untold.
Speaker B:And again, it's usually the dominant narrative is usually by those who have power, by those who have colonized, by those who still.
Speaker B:Who still have and wield the power.
Speaker B:And they may, you know, want to be a more.
Speaker B:How can I put this?
Speaker B:Generous colonizer or a kinder colonizer.
Speaker B:But at the end of the day, you're still occupying land and living on land that does not.
Speaker B:That you are illegally settled on.
Speaker B:It is not your land.
Speaker B:And I think his idea again is he says like we're intertwined.
Speaker B:Well, intertwined in what way?
Speaker B:Because if, if Yuval is trying to say that he and Basil are like of the same roots and lineage and this.
Speaker B:That's not true at all.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:That's just factually not true.
Speaker B:One person's lineage is from that land and historically speaking and, and in every other way.
Speaker B:And the other group of people are not.
Speaker B:And they have settled There, their grandparents and great grandparents are not from there.
Speaker B:That is a fact.
Speaker B:That's not an opinion so intertwined in what way?
Speaker B:Well, again, it's because of an occupation that's happening, that's been happening.
Speaker B:And it's because of that occupation that, you know, again, Gaza was not mentioned.
Speaker B:The hostages were mentioned.
Speaker B:Gaza was not that.
Speaker B:What we're seeing in Gaza has, has been, you know, unfolding.
Speaker B:It's nothing new, but unfolding in like the worst possible way now.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:I guess then for this.
Speaker A:Because there's.
Speaker A:There's so much, there's so much within that.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker A:There's the understanding of the history of Palestine.
Speaker A:It's understanding also too what indigeneity means, you know, with as far as like the, you know, people saying, well, they have ties to the land.
Speaker A:Regardless of whether or not you have ties to the land, there's a, There's a difference, right, between having some sort of.
Speaker A:I don't even want to say, and I'm not even sure if I should use the word Thai, but when you say, you know, being indigenous to the land.
Speaker A:And of course, like I understand it in the context of our indigenous mentors that we have here are indigenous to Turtle Island.
Speaker A:So for those of you who don't know, Turtle island refers to not only the United States, but then also Canada and Mexico.
Speaker A:If you look at the map, if you look at a map of North America, it looks like a turtle.
Speaker A:So they refer to is Turtle Island.
Speaker A:But going back and having conversations with a lot of our indigenous leaders here and mentors, the way they explain indigeneity and what it means to be indigenous to the land is that the land is part of you and you are part of the land.
Speaker A:There is no separ.
Speaker A:The two.
Speaker A:You are both.
Speaker A:You know, it's.
Speaker A:It's this.
Speaker A:It's this not only just like a relationship, but you're.
Speaker A:Yeah, it's connected.
Speaker B:It's a soul tie.
Speaker B:I mean, it's, it's a physical.
Speaker B:It's obviously it's.
Speaker B:But it's very much a much deeper thing than just occupying land.
Speaker B:I mean, when you see a people that are willing to, to care for the land and then die for the land, to preserve it, that's how you know, those people are of that land versus people who come and settle on it and want to extract from it.
Speaker B:And then if one thing goes wrong or if there's any sign of danger, usually perpetuated by their own colonizer.
Speaker B:Perpetuated.
Speaker B:Perpetuated by you Know, those that are taking the land away, not usually the other way around.
Speaker B:They run, they flee, they don't risk.
Speaker B:You know, they don't have this tie to, to, to those places.
Speaker B:In the same way they will run for their life, which is a normal human response when your life is in danger.
Speaker B:But when you are, when, when you're from a place, you know, your entire lineage, lineage is from that place.
Speaker B:And also you don't really see yourself going anywhere else.
Speaker B:I mean, it's.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's a completely different, it's a completely different thing.
Speaker B:It's a completely different relationship, you know, with the land and also the people around you.
Speaker B:I mean, the people, the Palestinians are very close to their families as well.
Speaker B:You're talking about generations of people.
Speaker B:A lot of people just, you know, try trying to live, live normal lives.
Speaker B:They're normal people, you know, trying to raise their children and go to school and go to work and you know, worship on if they're Christian, go to, you know, go to church, you're Muslim, you go to the mosque.
Speaker B:Normal things.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:You know, and, but that's really, I think the difference.
Speaker B:One of the main differences is, is that you're not going to just, even for any amount of money, you're not just going to give up your home.
Speaker B:You're not.
Speaker A:Right, right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So no Other Land.
Speaker A:Because we're, we're, we're constantly thinking about, you know, who does the story, who does the story center.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Like that's, I mean, that's why our Voices project started.
Speaker A:That is why we have this podcast, representation in cinema.
Speaker A:You know, we're talking, we're talking about stories that center black, brown, indigenous peoples.
Speaker A:And so when I think about no Other Land, it's a story that's centered on Palestine, it's centered on Palestinians.
Speaker A:And this is a film that, you know, as we mentioned, as we both mentioned, you know, is co directed by both Palestinians and Israelis.
Speaker A:And it's the first Palestinian centered story that won at the Oscars.
Speaker A:As if to say the Palestinian stories are only legitimate if you put them alongside an Israeli.
Speaker A:And so how do you feel about the implication that Palestinian voices only gain intimacy or, sorry, legitimacy or recognition on a global stage when paired with your, with, you know, with Israeli ones.
Speaker A:The oppressors in this, in this scenario.
Speaker A:How do you hold that tension?
Speaker B:Well, so I'm actually also thinking of, and I'm remembering that.
Speaker B:Oh gosh, the amaze.
Speaker B:The journalist who won.
Speaker B:Oh my God, help me out, Jackie.
Speaker B:I'm having a brain block.
Speaker A:Oh, no, Wait, which.
Speaker A:Okay, sorry, it was for the Emmys who won.
Speaker A:Was it a.
Speaker A:I'm sorry.
Speaker B:Okay, we're gonna have to cut.
Speaker A:No, no, you're fine.
Speaker A:No, no, don't.
Speaker A:No, we can figure this out.
Speaker A:We're gonna figure this out.
Speaker B:No, I know.
Speaker B:I'm just having a brain block anyway, so I.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker B:I, you know, I still, I'm really wondering if it's also in the moment, because of this moment that this film won, you know.
Speaker E:So the journalist appears to be Bisan.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Okay.
Speaker A:Yeah, well, no, okay, I'm sorry, I forgot that because.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker A:No, I forgot that she had won an Emmy because I'm like, okay, well, what is that supposed to do for her, though?
Speaker B:And she, she says that she's like, okay, thank you for the Emmy win.
Speaker B:Can we now free Palestine?
Speaker B:You know, can we have our land back?
Speaker B:Can we, can our people live?
Speaker B:You know, what are we supposed to do there?
Speaker B:And they, they do deserve all of these awards because honestly, Palestinians especially as.
Speaker B:And they're not even, we're not even talking about people who are professional journalists.
Speaker B:You don't have to have a press vest on.
Speaker B:They're all with their phones, with whatever handheld device that they have.
Speaker B:They are recording, you know, everything that's happening to them, that's happening to everyone around them.
Speaker B:If it was not for them documenting this genocide, we would not know the half of everything that's been happening.
Speaker B:And that's really the main reason why it is the most documented genocide to date, right?
Speaker B:Because, because of them, you know, and, and, you know, obviously we live in a time of social media too, but still they're, you know, being censored left.
Speaker B:And that's also by design.
Speaker B:But this is the most documented genocide ever, and it is because of them.
Speaker B:So it's, I guess back to the question of, you know, are these stories seen as more legitimate when I guess it's paired with an Israeli or maybe like an American or, you know, someone who is not Palestinian, basically.
Speaker B:I, Yeah, I mean, to a degree.
Speaker B:I, I think, I think that definitely makes it more of the story that I think especially in Hollywood.
Speaker B:And people want to, they want to, you know, envision a future where coexistence is still possible, you know, between the, quote, two sides.
Speaker B:And somehow there is a possibility for that, that it'll just work out.
Speaker B:Well, you know, Palestinians have tried that many, many times.
Speaker B:And they've, they've tried nonviolent protests, many types of non violent protests.
Speaker B:And so, and all, you know, other, other avenues to, you know, Gain their, their rights and, and their dignity and all of these things.
Speaker B:But every single time it's been met with more violence from the other side and more land grab and ethnic cleansing and.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And genocide.
Speaker B:So it's not that Palestinians haven't tried.
Speaker B:I mean, a lot of times it's been sort of put upon them by the greater imperial powers.
Speaker B:They, they're not really asked, they're not really asked about their own futures.
Speaker B:It's more of, you know, what other entities and powers want and, you know, are trying to do with them.
Speaker B:Figure out like the right solution.
Speaker B:But it never pans out because those empowered never keep up their end of the bargain anyway.
Speaker B:So there is that.
Speaker B:Yeah, I don't, I mean, here's the thing.
Speaker B:That's nice.
Speaker B:The Oscar is great.
Speaker B:Woohoo.
Speaker B:You know, I'm also thinking of, you know, you know, Sasheen Littlefeather, who decided to not accept the Oscar.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:On behalf of.
Speaker B:Gosh, I can't remember his name.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:And I just forgot it too.
Speaker A:No, but it is, it's.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:She goes up to Marlon Brando.
Speaker B:Yes, yes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So, yeah, in his stead, and he.
Speaker B:Was very critical, you know, of Hollywood stances when it comes to indigenous folks and things like that, but he, he could be without consequence because he was Marlon Brando and she faced a lot of backlash for that.
Speaker B:And she was just the messenger.
Speaker B:She was literally just the messenger up on a stage as a young woman saying, on behalf of Marlon Brando, he declines to accept this award because of, you know, et cetera, because of the treatment of indigenous folks and portrayals that, you know, that go against their principles and things like that.
Speaker B:And yeah, she, she was basically, you know, booed and punished for it, you know, so I, I keep that in mind.
Speaker B:Would, would it have been interesting, you know, like plot twist, like if they went up there and they were like, we're not going to accept this.
Speaker B:Hollywood and the Oscars and all is like, doesn't really mean much.
Speaker B:And this genocide is still going on and, you know, very little has actually been done about like real action taken to, to, to stop this.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And obviously Hollywood is very much a component in the silencing and also like perpetuating this really in, in many ways.
Speaker B:I mean, we can talk about like the media and like films and the portrayal of Palestinians specifically, but like, you know, people of the Middle east, there's all that but like just celebrity and slurry culture.
Speaker B:And how many celebrities have tweeted point blank that they Support that.
Speaker B:They support the genocide.
Speaker B:You know, we.
Speaker B:We have had that, and not much, you know, pushback is given or anything like that.
Speaker B:So we do have people who are in support of it.
Speaker B:And, you know, they are.
Speaker B:They're punished or silenced for that, too.
Speaker B:But what.
Speaker B:Like, they have the privilege to do it.
Speaker B:They have the privilege to do it.
Speaker B:They have.
Speaker B:They're all part of a main, you know, mainstream world stage.
Speaker B:Like, if you have that power and privilege, like, you have a responsibility.
Speaker B:So I don't believe celebrities are going to be our saviors or save the world or any.
Speaker B:But they do have a responsibility.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:So, absolutely.
Speaker A:I want to.
Speaker A:So, again, like, talking.
Speaker B:I hope that answered the question.
Speaker A:Oh, no, absolutely.
Speaker A:You answered the question.
Speaker A:You went above and beyond.
Speaker A:Answer the question.
Speaker B:Yeah, I.
Speaker B:There's so many great.
Speaker B:By the way, Like, I just.
Speaker B:This is why I'm like, there's better documentary.
Speaker B:I mean, this is a good documentary.
Speaker B:It's an authentic, you know, comes from an authentic place, at least.
Speaker B:Definitely from, like, Basil's family and his side.
Speaker B:But this has been happening in every part of Palestine is a smaller village.
Speaker B:It's been happening everywhere.
Speaker B:There's tons of great, authentic, heartbreaking, you know, documentaries that will never see, you know, a red carpet.
Speaker B:And that's okay.
Speaker B:That's not the point.
Speaker B:But, you know, and some are more easily available than others.
Speaker B:Now, Janine.
Speaker B:Janine is what comes.
Speaker B:One of many that comes to mind, which is available online and you can watch.
Speaker B:And that was around the.
Speaker B: Or the invasion of Janine and: Speaker B:And Janine is known as, you know, it's a very important spot in Palestine where resistance does happen.
Speaker B:And there's a lot of young people who, you know, are risking their life to, you know, help their people.
Speaker B:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker A:Well, and what does it mean to you to see so many Palestinians stepping into this role of storyteller or being their own journalists?
Speaker A:I know we talked a little bit about this before.
Speaker A:I mean, we talk about it all the time, but.
Speaker A:But we talked about it specifically about how, you know, you're seeing so many, even if.
Speaker A:Even if they don't have, like, a press badge on or press vest, I should say, on.
Speaker A:There's still lots of Palestinians out there, like, just with their phones, talking about what's going on, talking about what's happening to them.
Speaker A:How does it feel for you or what does it mean to you to be seeing that?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So many Palestinians telling their own story.
Speaker A:Even.
Speaker A:Even if it never, like Again, sees, you know, the red carpet or any grand stage.
Speaker B:Yeah, no, it's incredibly important.
Speaker B:I think our original storytellers before, you know, again, phones and cameras were easily available to anyone.
Speaker B:Like, I'm thinking of my grandparents and my great grandparents just sitting.
Speaker B:You know, I remember.
Speaker B:I mean, all my grandparents have passed at this point, but sitting down with my grandmother, who has, like, the memory of an elephant and can recall all of her stories, like, growing up or, you know, stories of family members.
Speaker B:And she literally would just.
Speaker B:She would take joy and just having us sitting around her, her grandkids and her just talking and sharing, like, how, you know, sharing her own stories.
Speaker B:She.
Speaker B:She really delighted in that.
Speaker B:And it was.
Speaker B:I wish I had a camera during the times, you know, the few times that, like, I had that, you know, with her so that I could have more of an archive or document something, you know.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:I feel like it comes naturally in a lot of ways.
Speaker B:Our people are just.
Speaker B:They're storytellers to begin with.
Speaker B:It's a part of.
Speaker B:Oral history is a big part of our culture to begin with, besides actual journalism.
Speaker B:But now when it comes to journalism and again, telling our stories and also getting the right news from the right sources.
Speaker B:Yeah, it's incredibly important, again, because there's so much misinformation and so much erasure, and that's why many of our journalists are being targeted.
Speaker B:They.
Speaker B:They are being targeted, and it's horrible, you know, and it was, gosh, the last journalist who was targeted and killed.
Speaker B:I'm forgetting all the names today.
Speaker B:It's so bad.
Speaker B:Or, no, I'm.
Speaker B:We're gonna have to look him up because it's important.
Speaker B:But he basically was stating he's like, we don't need the west or Western journalism to tell our stories.
Speaker B:We're here and we're telling our stories.
Speaker B:And it's true.
Speaker B:They're doing an incredible job, and they're doing.
Speaker B:Doing it in the most dangerous, you know, place to do it.
Speaker B:And they're still doing an incredible job.
Speaker B:They are at risk every day, but I don't think that they want anyone else to.
Speaker B:I think they want people to pay attention and to care and to do their part.
Speaker B:You know, they want change to happen, but it's not about giving the narrative or the.
Speaker B:Their.
Speaker B:The mic or whatever, just to anybody.
Speaker B:You know, they're more than capable of telling.
Speaker B:Telling their own stories and documenting everything that's been happening.
Speaker E:So it looks about a week ago, and this was an editor with Palestine Today, Ahmed Mansour and his co Worker Humi Al Faraki.
Speaker B:Thank you.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And he, he made sure that it was known before he was, you know, he was killed.
Speaker B:That, that it's, It's.
Speaker B:It's a responsibility, but there's just.
Speaker B:There's another layer and level to it, you know, because I don't.
Speaker B:They're being targeted so heavily and nothing is being done about it.
Speaker B:And, you know, that's just, it's very telling.
Speaker B:And it's specifically Palestinian journalists.
Speaker B:If we're talking about the journalists, it's specifically them with their press vests on.
Speaker B:It doesn't matter.
Speaker B:They are not protected.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:It just makes me think of, I mean, just constantly getting that, like, getting up in the morning and it's probably not the best thing to do, but opening to social media in the morning and seeing a post from Bassan saying, hello, this is Bassan, I'm still alive.
Speaker A:That sentence alone, like, like, I'm just.
Speaker A:Like, there's all, there's all the evidence.
Speaker A:You said.
Speaker A:You said, like, it's the most documented, which it is.
Speaker A:It's the most documented genocide we're seeing.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:There's all this documentation just constantly coming out of what's going on.
Speaker A:And, you know, it's all out there in the open, and it's just like, at some point, you think at some point, like, somebody has got to do.
Speaker B:Well, no one else can do.
Speaker B:I mean, it's a lot.
Speaker B:I mean, we.
Speaker B:We've all seen the images or the past year and a half.
Speaker B:You know, it's.
Speaker B:It is too much.
Speaker B:It's too much.
Speaker B:But I don't see.
Speaker B:I mean, I don't see any other, you know, folks around the world.
Speaker B:I'm sure that maybe there's people who might be inclined to, like, go to Gaza to.
Speaker B:To do the.
Speaker B:The reporting, but there's.
Speaker B:It's not.
Speaker B:I don't think it's possible in the way that they have been able to report in the way that they have been, you know, been able to report it.
Speaker B:And yes, it's visceral and it's violent and it's heartbreaking, it's devastating.
Speaker B:But I, I don't feel.
Speaker B:I would feel very sensitive just as a person from the diaspora, you know, giving that responsibility just to any journalist, especially mainstream journalism, is not it.
Speaker B:You know, these are Western outlets are.
Speaker B:They are extremely corporate and biased.
Speaker B:That is a reality.
Speaker B:So we have to lean on and depend on those who are doing the hard work of.
Speaker B:Of telling the authentic, authentic news stories, etc.
Speaker B:All of those things.
Speaker B:And also these journalists are very close to their people.
Speaker B:It's not going to be the same thing, you know, from an outsider's perspective.
Speaker B:It just isn't.
Speaker B:There's, there's more of an intimacy there.
Speaker B:There is the professionalism aspect, but there's definitely more of an intimacy that there.
Speaker B:And I'll give an example, right.
Speaker B:Like during when Gazans in the, by the thousands were going back to the north because they were there was during the ceasefire, the so called ceasefire, so called these fire.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:You know, and they were.
Speaker B:And it was incredible seeing the thousands of people on foot walking back to, you know, I mean they know that their homes are gone, their families are, have perished, but they're going back to their land, to their place.
Speaker B:They're in there very grateful to be able to, to track back the journalists that were, you know, in the midst of those people stopping and to talk to them or to get, you know, a word from them.
Speaker B:It was a celebration for everyone.
Speaker B:Like, it wasn't just like, hey, can we just stop?
Speaker B:You know, we're going to do this professional interview.
Speaker B:Okay, so just like look here and do this was.
Speaker B:It's not like that.
Speaker B:You know, the journalists are very much part of the people.
Speaker B:So the people were cheering and hugging, running up, hugging them, hugging the journalists.
Speaker B:The journalists are hugging them.
Speaker B:Very congratulatory.
Speaker B:A man, like I remember he, he just, he ran towards one of the journalists and just like embraced him, gave him this big hug and he started sobbing.
Speaker B:And, and the, the man who was reporting, you know, he, he just kept saying like alhamdulillah salaam.
Speaker B:Alhamdulillah Salam.
Speaker B:Which just means like, you know, congratulations to your homecoming.
Speaker B:Like God bless you.
Speaker B:God bless you.
Speaker B:You know, you don't, you don't, you're not going to get that from, from anyone else.
Speaker B:You know, it's not the same, it's not the same as just corporate news at all.
Speaker B:It gives you that, it restores that humanity that I think that from any other outlet constantly tries to take away from the Palestinians and their experience and their stories in every way.
Speaker B:So just to even have a little bit of that humanity restored is so important.
Speaker B:It's so important because besides the actual physical violence that's, that's being forced on them, it's very violent to the, the ways that they've been dehumanized and, and erased is just as violent.
Speaker B:It's very violent too.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:You know, so it's extremely important.
Speaker A:Yeah, I am thinking about so in what you're Saying about, you know, dehumanization and the way in which Palestinians are being portrayed and have been portrayed.
Speaker A:You know, we're.
Speaker A:We're.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:And it's important that we see.
Speaker A:We see what's happening, we see what's going on.
Speaker A:And as, you know, as difficult as it is, you know, imagine what it's like for Palestinians on the ground and at the same time, also to see.
Speaker A:Because not only is it, you know, they're.
Speaker A:They're.
Speaker A:They're being genocided, but then also a lot of what, you know, makes a person human, like you said, dehumanizing.
Speaker A:A lot of the dehumanization that's going on on top of everything else is also, you know, schools have been destroyed, hospitals, places of worship.
Speaker A:A lot of their, you know, we're over here at least, like, within the movement, hearing a lot from Palestinian poets and singers and artists and revolutionaries and, you know, to also, like.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:You said something before.
Speaker A:I think it was even outside of this.
Speaker A:This conversation, but saying something not only to, like, again, bringing all that and what I just said, but then also, like, not seeing or portraying Palestinians as victims either, and being very careful to do.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Having that very black and white sort of category, you know, categorizing them or view of them as either villain or victim or, you know, these people without agency.
Speaker B:And it's just the outside world trying to make all of these decisions for them as though they don't have a clue, you know, what they want and how they envision their sovereignty, their safety, their futures for themselves, for their families, for their children.
Speaker B:You know, but every time they try, every time they try, it's just.
Speaker B:It's, again, it's forcibly taken from them in one way or the other.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah, I.
Speaker B:That's why.
Speaker B:I mean, for me.
Speaker B:And, you know, I mean, you know, Jackie, you know me well enough now to.
Speaker B:That's why I can be maybe sometimes a little bit annoying about centering Palestinian voices.
Speaker B:And I don't mean it.
Speaker A:Not annoying at all.
Speaker A:Not.
Speaker B:I don't.
Speaker B:And I'm like.
Speaker B:I'm not even talking about myself, per se.
Speaker B:Although, like, y'all.
Speaker B:Like, I.
Speaker B:I've heard plenty of speakers, and some.
Speaker B:Some people are very.
Speaker B:They have the heart and they have, you know, some of the knowledge, and we need as many people to care about this issue as possible.
Speaker B:100 to speak out.
Speaker B:Speak out, you know, with your family, with your colleagues.
Speaker B:Like, it's.
Speaker B:It's a necessary thing.
Speaker B:It's not just if you're a Palestinian like do this and if you're not do that.
Speaker B:That's not, that's not what we're saying.
Speaker B:But, but again, it is a, it is the reality that Palestinians, whether we're talking about, you know, in the New York Times, like again, mainstream news, Hollywood films, they are not really allowed or given space to, to, to tell it how it is, how they, how they feel, how they, what they want.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:They're just, they're not given that.
Speaker B:And again, every time they try, they're just met with more silencing, more censorship.
Speaker B:We see that, we see that, we see that on social media.
Speaker B:We see it everywhere.
Speaker B:So yeah, that's why it's just, it's, it's crucial when I say that I'm like, it's not even Palestinians within the diaspora, it's really them, the ones who have been displaced, who are like in their intense and still being bombed.
Speaker B:Intense.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Can.
Speaker B:How.
Speaker B:What, what is, you know, what needs to happen, what needs to happen in order for this to, to stop.
Speaker B:And even going back to the term ceasefire being such a controversial term, right?
Speaker B:Yeah, the term ceasefire is seen as controversial here, specifically here in America, in the west, because it's, because being done to the Palestinians.
Speaker B:Yeah, that's it.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Really?
Speaker A:So, so.
Speaker A:And then also too, so we're talking about again and you actually answered one of my next questions which was going to be, you know, what, what as, you know, regular citizens, as artists and everything, what could we be doing?
Speaker A:And so what I'm hearing is constantly sharing about and centering, right.
Speaker A:Palestinian voices and you know, sharing, sharing their stories, sharing what's going on as far as that goes.
Speaker A:What, like, what is it that you.
Speaker A:I guess what, let's start with films because of course we're on a movie podcast and we're talking about representation in cinema and we talked about no Other Land.
Speaker A:And then going, you know, even further into depth about, you know, Palestinian films again, Palestine, Palestinian centered stories.
Speaker A:What are other recommendations that you have as far as, you know?
Speaker B:Yeah, so like I said, there's so many people can obviously do their own research, but I can recommend a couple websites.
Speaker B:You can go on Palestine films.org There is the Palestine Film Institute.org I found another website.
Speaker B:If you just Google films about Palestine, you know, more recommendations also come up.
Speaker B:And also we do have Witness Palestine which runs a film festival every, every year in November right here in Rochester.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:And if you can go on their website, WPFF Us.
Speaker B:Yeah, you'll definitely have all types of recommendations towards great Documentaries, films, you know, fiction based films as well.
Speaker B:They're.
Speaker B:They exist, they're out there.
Speaker B:You just have to do a little bit of research.
Speaker B:I off the dome.
Speaker B:Like I am trying to think, Gosh, I don't.
Speaker B:So like, I know more recently, I guess a more fun recommendation.
Speaker B:I mean if you haven't watched the show mo on Netflix, watch it.
Speaker B:I feel like that's a good, it's a good watch.
Speaker B:And it is loosely based on his actual life and things that he's been through as a Palestinian American and, and his problems with trying to get a visa and like family issues and things like that.
Speaker B:And I think the show did a pretty good job of, you know, showing that connection to Homeland, especially when you're part of the diaspora and what that means and especially if you haven't been there in a very long time.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So I mean we have more options than we used to.
Speaker B:So just, it's just about like finding them and I think it's, you know, I still want to see things that I think have not been made yet.
Speaker B:I again, all of the documentaries from authentic voices from Palestinians telling their stories is very important.
Speaker B:We have a lot of heaviness out there.
Speaker B:A lot of these documentaries aren't, you know, are hard to watch.
Speaker B:I'd like to see more, you know, stories being told more.
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Like Arab writers and Palestinian writers, you know, coming up with their own screenplays.
Speaker B:More of that.
Speaker B:We have it.
Speaker B:We have people who are doing all kinds of things.
Speaker B:But I want to see more of that and more of it being supported.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, Pulling, pulling focus out.
Speaker A:I have to use a camera reference because.
Speaker A:Of course.
Speaker A:But pulling out of focus even more like it is.
Speaker A:So for our listeners, if you're listening, we're recording this in the middle of April, which is Arab Heritage Month.
Speaker A:And while we are like talk about Arab representation.
Speaker A:No.
Speaker A:365 and 366 on a leap year since that is more.
Speaker A:Usually when you're inside of these heritage months, people are more apt to pay attention.
Speaker A:So there is a film that Muna, you had suggested, you know, basically like kind of like a one on one on how Hollywood has and continues to perpetuate stereotypes around about Arabs and what is that film and tell us about it.
Speaker B:Yes, thanks for asking, Jackie.
Speaker B:Can you guys tell.
Speaker B:We've had these conversations before but I'm glad we get to share with you guys today.
Speaker B:So, yeah, a very important documentary and it's widely, it's easily available because it's on YouTube now.
Speaker B:It's a 50 minute documentary called Real Bad Arabs.
Speaker B:Real as in film reel Bad Arabs.
Speaker B:And it's based on a Professor Jack Shaheen, his book by the same name, who is no longer with us.
Speaker B:But it does a really great job and I would hope to actually see like a part two of this sort of documentary.
Speaker B:But it does a really great job of highlighting how Hollywood films have maligned and villainized, you know, the, the portrayal of the Arab, basically this exotic or villainous thing that's not really real.
Speaker B:You know, all of the stereotypes that you can think of that, you know, is supposed to represent the Arab on film or like a loosely Muslim type of figure or something like that.
Speaker B:Whether, whether they know when they're, you know, they're Muslim or.
Speaker B:Yeah, this, this, the stereotypes that surround those identities that have been, that have existed in Hollywood films for a very long time and sort of highlighting the, highlighting that and trying to educate people on, you know, that this has been going on for so long and I, I think we, we don't, I think like the, the American psyche just got used to it, you know, doesn't question it.
Speaker A:Oh, for sure.
Speaker B:For so long.
Speaker B:It's these films that we grew up on.
Speaker B:And a lot of it is propaganda, obviously, but a lot of it is war propaganda as well.
Speaker B:That's a whole other thing.
Speaker B:But yeah, Real Bad Arabs.
Speaker B:Do yourself a favor, if you have not watched it, I believe it's a must watch.
Speaker B:I think that they should show this documentary actually more widely in the education system.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I, I wish I had more suggestions.
Speaker B:There is a film right now on Netflix called the Mauritanian.
Speaker B:That film is based on the true story of a man who was held in Guantanamo for like 14 years, was never charged with anything.
Speaker A:Wow.
Speaker B:Like most of the men who were held in Guantanamo.
Speaker B:But it's, it's based on his memoir called Guantanamo Diaries.
Speaker B:His name is Mamadou Saw, I think Slahi.
Speaker B:Mamadou Slahi.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:So it's, it's based on his memoir and I was really.
Speaker B:Yeah, I recommend that it's on Netflix.
Speaker B:I, I'm glad that they made that film.
Speaker B:I think that at least it tries, it doesn't really show, I think everything, but it really tries to tell more of the accurate story of, of that time and of that, you know, those practices that were put upon, you know, people, certain men of this, like, Middle east area post 9, 11.
Speaker B:So.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And so I will.
Speaker A:Let's see our last really short questions because of course we don't believe in small talk here.
Speaker A:It's all just like, deep conversation.
Speaker A:And yeah, we tend to go on, like, seriously, I.
Speaker A:If we could make a podcast, two hours.
Speaker A:Don't tempt us.
Speaker A:But it easily becomes.
Speaker A:It easily could become that, but we won't do that to you, Chris, and to our listeners as well.
Speaker B:So part two coming up.
Speaker A:Exactly.
Speaker A:There you go.
Speaker A:So do you.
Speaker A:Do you have muna?
Speaker A:Any.
Speaker A:Any, like, upcoming, like, or, like, I'll start with this.
Speaker A:Like, do you have any shout outs?
Speaker A:Because I know we had, like, also talked about this.
Speaker A:We talked about.
Speaker A:We.
Speaker A:We prepare a lot, we talk.
Speaker A:We.
Speaker A:We're constantly having these conversations anyway, but are there any shout outs that you want to give, you know, to anyone who is also, you know, doing this work or just general shout outs, you know?
Speaker B:Yeah, well, first, shout out.
Speaker B:Shout out to you, Jackie, and our voices project.
Speaker B:Check them out, guys.
Speaker B:Telling those authentic voices narratives.
Speaker B:Say that, not tell.
Speaker A:Just so y'all.
Speaker B:No, she didn't.
Speaker B:She didn't.
Speaker B:That's all me.
Speaker B:So, no, definitely shout out to you, Jackie, because you have been such a support and I really believe in, I think what you're trying to do out here.
Speaker B:And I think, like, our voices do need to be heard, like different, authentic, you know, marginalized voices.
Speaker B:But it's hard to do in safe spaces to find safe spaces to do that.
Speaker B:So I think it's.
Speaker B:I know it's not always easy, but I see you and I think it's very important work.
Speaker B:So always happy to be a part of anything you do.
Speaker B:So shout out to you, girl.
Speaker B:I want to give a shout out to the little theater because they do continue to show films that I think other cinemas just don't or won't show.
Speaker B:I think that they really do try and they do listen to the folks and they have supported the Palestine Film Festival for a long time now.
Speaker B:So I think that, you know, that's worth mentioning.
Speaker A:They've got two movies coming up.
Speaker A:So there's the Foragers.
Speaker A:That's this week.
Speaker A:This week.
Speaker A:And then because I believe that one centering Palestinian farmer.
Speaker B:Something like that.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then Chris is looking at him.
Speaker A:And then there's also the encampments that was actually just announced.
Speaker A:And now while it's not.
Speaker A:It's on the student movement, so it's more about that.
Speaker A:But of course, encampments were a way for students to get the word out about what was happening or what is happening in Gaza and in the west bank as well.
Speaker B:Yeah, the largest student movement in history.
Speaker A:That's out.
Speaker A:So the encampments is out at least here in Rochester at the Little Theater on May 2nd and 3rd.
Speaker A:And I'm not being paid to say this.
Speaker A:I'm just a fan.
Speaker A:We're just fans here of the Little.
Speaker A:But also because I know that folks at the Little listen to the show.
Speaker A:Please show Real Bad Arabs because it's so good.
Speaker A:I You talking about that film.
Speaker A:And there is so much that I.
Speaker B:Yeah, we're gonna know.
Speaker B:We will.
Speaker B:We have to do another.
Speaker A:Yeah, we'll have to do another.
Speaker A:That one for sure.
Speaker E:Looks like you can also get that on Canopy and support your local library at the same time.
Speaker E:So you can use your library card and watch it through Canopy.
Speaker A:Oh, wait, is that.
Speaker E:Is that real bad error?
Speaker A:That's real bad errors.
Speaker A:Okay, gotcha.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:Okay, any.
Speaker A:And to close us out, Muna, any final thoughts just about the movie?
Speaker A:Anything we've talked about?
Speaker A:Anything that we haven't talked about, like, final thoughts?
Speaker B:I just want to say, you know, I appreciate anyone who has been doing the work advocating going to protests.
Speaker B:There's a lot of people out there who have been taking the time, just their own time on this, on this issue.
Speaker B:And you know, who do.
Speaker B:Who I know do care a great deal and sometimes they feel unseen.
Speaker B:But, you know, trust that like it is.
Speaker B:It's always appreciated and, you know, no act is too small.
Speaker B:I do hope that our community can continue doing that work and also, you know, can come together and get stronger and get braver because we have to get real brave.
Speaker B:Especially now, given everything, given, you know, not just this administration, given this administration, but the fact that this is just.
Speaker B:This is not over.
Speaker B:It's not over.
Speaker B:Unfortunately.
Speaker B:We have a ways to go.
Speaker B:Palestine will be free, God willing, sooner rather than later.
Speaker B:But we, we still have work to do.
Speaker B:And so whatever ways that we can help support one another to keep each other safe, but also, you know, do this important work because, yeah, the.
Speaker B:The liberation of the Palestinians means liberation for so many other people.
Speaker A:Indeed.
Speaker A:Thank you so much, Muna, for sharing, for being on the podcast today, for sharing your insight, for sharing your heart, your knowledge for our listeners.
Speaker A:We will put all of the recommendations as well as the upcoming movies and the shout outs that Muna gave in the show notes.
Speaker A:So please go and look those up.
Speaker A:I want to say to our listeners, again, thank you so much for your support of our Voices project and our Representation in Cinema podcast.
Speaker A:You can find us on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and Blue sky and@ourvoicesproject.com for more information about what we do.
Speaker A:You can sign up for our newsletter there too to be the first to get notifications about podcast episodes and new film projects.
Speaker A:You can listen to this episode and others under Representation in Cinema on any of the platforms listed on our website.
Speaker A:Like we said with Spotify anywhere you listen to your favorite podcasts and also on our website@our voicesproject.com podcast.
Speaker A:This has been Jackie McGriff, your host for this episode of Representation in Cinema of our Voices project.
Speaker A:Thank you again for listening.
Speaker B:This has been a presentation of the Lunchador Podcast Network.
Speaker E:Make sure to like and subscribe to the powerful Jackie McGriff Experience for another three hour podcast where independent thinkers do independent thought in a very independent way.
