The Stroll
Hey pod and welcome back! This is the third segment of our Black August series, where we talk about the films that highlight Black resistance, freedom fighters, and political prisoners. Tonight, we are discussing the film, The Stroll directed by Kristen Lovell and Zackary Drucker released in 2023. Co-Director, trans activist, and former sex worker, Kristen Lovell tells the history of New York City’s Meatpacking District during the 1980s and 1990s through her personal story and the stories of Black and Latina trans women who worked there as sex workers in an area known as "The Stroll".
Joining us again on the podcast tonight is Kamryn Elhen Jerrel. Her pronouns are she/her/we/fae. She’s the former host of Tranos and the Lived Experience Podcast and releasing a new podcast soon! You can follow her on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/kamrynblaque.
Wherever you’re listening from, hit that subscribe button, give us a 5-star rating, share this episode and leave a comment to let us know what you thought of tonight’s episode. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Tiktok, & Threads.
Visit ourvoicesproject.com and sign up for our newsletter for more information about what we do. We’ll be back with more episodes continuing our Black August series, including discussing the documentary, Ida B. Wells: A Chicago Stories Special, which you can watch now on YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML8XiKVStWQ).
Chapters:
00:00 - Intro
18:38 - The Concept of Acceptable Gay Theory
30:24 - The Impact of Giuliani's Policies on Trans Lives
34:20 - The Impact of Trauma on the Trans Community
48:12 - The Journey of Resilience and Joy
Mentioned in this episode:
Joe Bean Roasters
Visit joebeanroasters.com to get fresh roasted specialty coffee either by the bag or with a Perpetual Joy subscription!
Transcript
Hello pod, and welcome back.
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Speaker A:We talk about the films that center Black, Brown and Indigenous voices, as well as on the film industry itself.
Speaker A:I'm Jackie McGriff, your host and the founder, director and co producer at Our Voices Project, a production company that shares the stories and lived experiences of Black, Brown and Indigenous peoples through visual storytelling and truth telling.
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Speaker A:This is the third segment of our Black August series where we talk about the films that highlight Black resistance from freedom fighters and political prisoners.
Speaker A: Zachary Drucker, released in: Speaker A: atpacking district during the: Speaker A:Joining us again on the podcast tonight is Cameroon Aline Jarrell.
Speaker A:Her pronouns are she, her, we, faye.
Speaker A:She's the former host of Tranos and the Lived Experience podcast.
Speaker A:Welcome back to the podcast, Cam.
Speaker B:Thank you kindly.
Speaker B:Greetings everyone.
Speaker B:TRA and OSA with your whole chest or I'll slap your mom in church.
Speaker A:You're also about to speak, speaking of those very colorful phrases that you have, you are coming out with a new podcast.
Speaker B:Yes, I am working on, currently working on a new podcast called Trenos Pot for wayward children and wayward girls.
Speaker B:To be totally honest with you, of still working shop workshopping the name.
Speaker B:But I'm thinking In the next 45 days that'll be dropping and I'll let you know more about that.
Speaker B:Follow me at K A M R Y N E O S on Instagram to learn more.
Speaker A:Awesome.
Speaker A:All right, so let us get into the conversation about the Stroll.
Speaker A:So when was the, when was the first time that you watched this Cam?
Speaker B:I watched this, I want to say, two years ago and I came across it on hbo.
Speaker B:Max, that's not a plug.
Speaker B:They don't pay Us.
Speaker B:And I was just kind of looking for more representation.
Speaker B:And like, generally, when you're looking at the streaming services for trans content, you rarely see black people, especially something that was directed and, like, co produced by a black trans woman.
Speaker B:So I was intrigued by that.
Speaker B:So that drew me to watching it.
Speaker A:Okay, and what was your initial reaction to seeing that?
Speaker B:It's so rare to come across a griot person who is sharing the oral history and being completely open about what that history is without anyone's input or someone else attempting immediately to erase it.
Speaker B:So I, for lack of a better word, was enamored.
Speaker B:I wanted.
Speaker B:I wanted so badly to hear the story once again.
Speaker B:Living in that.
Speaker B:I like that era.
Speaker B:And then at the area, at parts and times during this, I. I can distinctly remember certain smells and the way that things looked and the feelings I had in that area.
Speaker B:So I just wanted to know if they matched.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Going back to what you said about the representation and you rarely seeing, you know, a black or person of color trans person, like, on screen and doing it in a way also, too, that isn't sensationalized.
Speaker A:And like, that was one of my first thoughts, like, watching this, first of all, before I hadn't heard of this film before you had suggested it.
Speaker A:And come to think of it, like, I. I don't remember seeing anything also true to that effect of seeing black trans women.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Being able to share their stories, to tell their stories again in a way that is not sensationalized, but in their own words.
Speaker A:And so when, like, I started watching this, I just remember seeing, like, just being like, oh, my God, like, I didn't.
Speaker A:I didn't know about any of this.
Speaker A:Of course, so much of it is, like, shoved, you know, down.
Speaker A:People.
Speaker A:People don't.
Speaker A:People don't talk about this, or there are people talking about it, but there are people who aren't willing to or want to center these stories because it's often seen as something that is, like, not worthy of being in front of the.
Speaker A:The camera for whatever reason.
Speaker A:Like, people, you know, say that they're for LGBTQ lives, but oftentimes that that T part is left out of the conversation.
Speaker A:It's not even.
Speaker A:It's not that it's left out.
Speaker A:It's, like, shoved out.
Speaker B:Yeah, we're.
Speaker B:We're always seen as perverse or indecent, especially if POC comes into play.
Speaker B:If that intersectionality is attached to transness, then all of a sudden it's something that we want, like, pushed to the fringe.
Speaker B:And what I loved about this and Why I shared it with you is because that wasn't being done in this instance.
Speaker B:We were talking about the whole experience and not leaving parts out or centering it in such a way that it became like, sensationalized, like, or like pornographic.
Speaker B:We were talking about, like, the survival tactics that had to be used during that period of time by trans women, which reminds us of an era long gone that they're trying to put us back into.
Speaker A:And it was such a, A beautiful retelling of this community of women who were really, who were really sticking out for one another, looking out for each other.
Speaker A:This was again, a community of people who had all been through, even though their stories were different.
Speaker A:There were all, they all had similarities in the experiences that they had and that they shared, and the only people who were going to look out for them were them.
Speaker A:And so I just remember, like, as I was watching this, again, just watching this community of women rally around each other and support one another and look out for each other and showing that beautiful sisterhood, it was also like a celebration.
Speaker A:Celebration of.
Speaker A:And in this.
Speaker A:Well, really, yeah, it's a celebration of these women and, you know, survival.
Speaker A:So many women have, have, have died, have, have passed on through so many different things.
Speaker A:And just watching these women really just talk about that history up their experiences and also too, so many of the things that affected their livelihoods.
Speaker A:I mean, you're talking about.
Speaker A:So, and we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll go into this with breaking down the film.
Speaker A:I mean, there, first of all, because we're talking about Black August.
Speaker A:We're talking about black resistance.
Speaker A:I want to talk too, about the ways in which we see resistance in this film.
Speaker A:So one of those being, you know, we've already talked about, you know, again, not being this film, not being exploitive.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:It's, it's, it's black trans women having autonomy over their stories.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Kristen in the film talks about there being cameras already on them.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:In that, in that time.
Speaker A:And she talks about being a.
Speaker A:And I'm putting in quotes here, subject, you know, and it's something that was like someone coming from outside of the community.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Once again, yes.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:To document them.
Speaker A:And it just felt like she didn't have autonomy over her own story.
Speaker A:It was like kind of just like being looked at as.
Speaker A:And it's not her words exactly, but like looked at as if it's like an exhibit.
Speaker A:Like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna point the camera.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Make my own thing and then, and then duck out Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:It's like when you're.
Speaker B:When you become like a subject in a petri dish, you're being observed.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:But they're not going to interfere or what's going on.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And the thing about it is, it's like in that era when Kristen was being.
Speaker B:But was a subject, you have to think about the climate when it came to that.
Speaker B:We had Taxi Cab Confessions.
Speaker A:What were Taxi Cab Confessions?
Speaker B:Taxi Cab Confessions was another HBO show where they pretty much exploited people who were in taxi cabs, and they wanted to learn about the soft underbelly of New York.
Speaker B:So what they did was, like, they would have cameras in there, and you see all kinds of wild, salacious shit.
Speaker B:People having sex in the back.
Speaker B:Is it too early to curse?
Speaker A:No, no.
Speaker B:The curse countdown.
Speaker B:You would see people having sex in the back of the car or talking about.
Speaker B:There was one episode where there's, like, this.
Speaker B:This sharing of transness in a relationship.
Speaker B:So it was my first time seeing a trans person in a healthy relationship.
Speaker B:But it was.
Speaker B:It was framed in such a way where she shared her experience.
Speaker B:And then when the taxi ride was over there, like, get out.
Speaker B:You want to sign this NDA real quick.
Speaker B:And that was it.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:Like, she didn't get paid for it.
Speaker B:And then you have.
Speaker B:So you have that kind of mentality already happening in the New York area, specifically around the str.
Speaker B:In the strip, Broadway, and those kind of places.
Speaker B:And then this is on the back of Paris is Burning.
Speaker B:A lot of documentarians were like, oh, there's a lot of subjects in New York, specifically black and downtrodden ones.
Speaker B:We can go there and we can videotape their enclosure.
Speaker B:And that's pretty much what the energy was.
Speaker B:And I loved how even in the.
Speaker B:Placed in a position of subject, Kristen decided that, no, I'm gonna turn the hustle on.
Speaker B:I can do this, too.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And I can do this in a.
Speaker B:In a way that uplifts and tells our stories truthfully without the slant of an outsider.
Speaker A:Right, right.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker A:It's taking back the narrative.
Speaker A:It's taking control of.
Speaker A:Of the story.
Speaker A:No, I. I've experienced this, and I have sisters who've also experienced this.
Speaker A:And we're going to tell the stories of our survival and.
Speaker A:And I'm going to uplift them, just like you said.
Speaker A:And I. I just found that very inspiring.
Speaker A:I also found it, like.
Speaker A:It's also extremely aggravating because, again, we're talking about a group of people who are constantly, again, their stories, their bodies being like, thrown under the bus, shoved, you know, shoved out of the conversation.
Speaker A:You know, when it comes to liberation, talking about liberation.
Speaker A:And here's a woman who's like, no, no, I'm gonna.
Speaker A:I'm gonna tell our stories.
Speaker A:I'm gonna do it the way that we want the stories told.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:Because there's always a narrative.
Speaker B:When they come to.
Speaker B:To view the.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The zoo, there's always this narrative that they want to put on things.
Speaker B:Oh, they're so poor and downtrodden and look at how, like, look at how devastating their lifestyles have become.
Speaker B:And it's not that.
Speaker B:Like, the lifestyle, which I hate.
Speaker B:It's not the lifestyle.
Speaker A:It's.
Speaker B:These are.
Speaker B:These are trans women who are trying to survive their own authenticity in a world that refuses them authenticity.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:It's less about where they ended up and where they were relegated to.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:The narrative was always like, well, if you're trans, this is where you'll end up.
Speaker B:Well, why?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Why?
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And I like how Kristen approached it and explained it in such a way.
Speaker B:And it's not subtle at all.
Speaker B:There's a lot of explanation of how the stroll came to be and why the stroll existed for so long and why it is no longer here.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And let's.
Speaker A:I mean.
Speaker A:Yeah, we'll.
Speaker A:We will get into that in a moment.
Speaker A:So I also, like, again, because I mentioned it a little bit earlier, was about this sisterhood teaching girls.
Speaker A:Whenever, you know, whenever someone was being kicked out of their home or however they found their way to the stroll, there were always.
Speaker A:Oh, I forget who talks about it, but there was someone in the film who talks about how, you know, crying when they.
Speaker A:When they do the first sex act.
Speaker A:And other women telling her about, you know, what to look out for, you know, especially with the cops that were constantly doing sweeps.
Speaker A:Yep.
Speaker A:Sweeps.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And then also to how to defend themselves against bad clients.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:It's like, cops included.
Speaker A:Cops included.
Speaker A:Which I'm just like.
Speaker A:I'm sitting there, and when they mentioned that, I was like, of course.
Speaker A:Of course.
Speaker A:There was one of them who was talking about how after she.
Speaker A:After she got done with him, he arrests her.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:And I'm like, are we for real?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:You got to get the quota.
Speaker B:You still.
Speaker B:You still.
Speaker B:And I hated how.
Speaker B:No, I love that they highlighted how they talked about us.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:In news articles, on television, during a camera interview, an officer said the he, she.
Speaker A:I was like, my goodness gracious.
Speaker B:Another officer was heard saying, shims, she.
Speaker B:Hims.
Speaker B:Like, they're Just so ridiculous.
Speaker B:So, like, the sexual act happens.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:They don't pay you.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And then they arrest you.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:What?
Speaker A:And they're talking about.
Speaker A:They were.
Speaker A:They said a lot of cops.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker B:And these women were stroll mothers.
Speaker B:It's just like having a mother of a house.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Except for this is a homeless trans woman, so she can only do so much, but she's trying to do everything that she can.
Speaker B:So they will have to tell you how to protect yourself.
Speaker B:They have to comfort you and watch out for you because, like, that's all they have.
Speaker B:Like, when you're on the stroll, you.
Speaker B:You weirdly become family because of the common ties.
Speaker B:And plus, like, if one of you gets hurt, all of you get hurt.
Speaker A:Right, Right.
Speaker B:So you have to watch out for the girl next to you because, like, if something happens to her, what's going to stop that person from doing it to you?
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:And I love the.
Speaker A:The animation that was used.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:In the film.
Speaker A:So when she's just.
Speaker A:When they're describing Wonder Woman power.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker A:Wonder Woman powers.
Speaker A:And so there's all of these, like, they.
Speaker A:All of the women they're, like, dressed up as.
Speaker A:To show them, like, dressed up as in the animation, as superheroes.
Speaker A:And like, this team of, like, superheroes coming together, you know, to rescue one of their own.
Speaker A:And it's.
Speaker A:It was.
Speaker A:It was really.
Speaker A:It was really cool.
Speaker A:I loved seeing that.
Speaker A:And it.
Speaker A:The.
Speaker A:The film often switches from sort of like live action and not found footage, but like, like archival footage and then.
Speaker A:And then animation in there as well.
Speaker B:It's.
Speaker B:And it's really good animation.
Speaker B:It's very.
Speaker B:It's very vivid and it tells and it upholds what's being said in that moment.
Speaker B:And the sisterhood of the girls on the stroll and is a very strong sisterhood.
Speaker B:And it comes once again, I think I said it in an episode that I've been invited to talk to before.
Speaker B:It's a choosing.
Speaker B:Those women could have been catty and rude and nasty because at the end of the day, they're all competing to survive, to make cash.
Speaker B:But they weren't.
Speaker B:They watched out for each other.
Speaker B:They made sure that they were keeping tabs on which girls left with who.
Speaker B:They were making sure that, like, hey, when you're out here, you need a weapon on you, or, hey, when you're out here, like, you need, like, when you hear me say, like, like, mask or like, mark, it's time for us to leave, like, that kind of thing.
Speaker B:They were sharing this information when they didn't have To.
Speaker B:They chose community, they chose each other, they chose the sisterhood.
Speaker B:And that's the bond that kept them safe for the most part.
Speaker B:It kept them safe for the most part.
Speaker B:And I'm not saying that horrible things didn't happen, but it happened way less than it could have.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:So going into now talking to about like the, the conditions, you know, that, that someone is.
Speaker A:Is forced into.
Speaker A:So sex work as the only option and sex work being work like that being the only option.
Speaker A:So talk, talk about like.
Speaker A:And then they, in the film, they, they, she, Kristen and Zachary, they, they really do a great job of breaking all of this down.
Speaker A:But talking about how young people are being thrown out of their homes because of how they identify, because of, of who they are.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And then not being able to get a job.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:So someone showing up as authentically themselves and not being given the opportunity.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:To.
Speaker A:To.
Speaker A:To work.
Speaker A:And so, so you, you basically have a society that is set up where, you know, someone who is showing up, however they're showing up, not giving them a job, you know, kind of like forcing them into trying to make money in whatever means necessary or whatever means possible.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And then in.
Speaker A:And then incriminating them.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:You know, for doing that or, or, or it's a scarlet letter treatment.
Speaker B:So Kristin made a comment like she was put on the streets when she was around 14.
Speaker B:She got a job at a coffee shop.
Speaker B:She had the job.
Speaker B:And when she started presenting as her authentic self, then she was no longer allowed to have the job.
Speaker B:She fired from the job.
Speaker B:And the reason for that is, I call it acceptable gay theory.
Speaker A:Oh, now what is now explaining acceptable acceptable gay theory.
Speaker B:Acceptable gay theory falls down the line of like, when you see Marsha P. Johnson and Sylvia, they are not acceptable gays.
Speaker B:I am not an acceptable gay.
Speaker B:You can tell how queer I am from far away.
Speaker B:The, the acceptable gay movement was like, hey, like, we're just trying to fit in and we're trying to assimilate into American culture and we want them to like us.
Speaker B:You're making it harder for us.
Speaker B:And it's being perpetuated by the oppressor because the oppressor says that I'm the problem.
Speaker B:So now you are agreeing with them.
Speaker B:It's acceptable gay theory.
Speaker B:Like, why can't you just be a gay man?
Speaker B:Why can't you just be a lesbian?
Speaker B:Those are the things that a lot of these children were hearing.
Speaker B:Like, it's already bad enough that they got kicked out of their houses for being queer.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:But once they got out into the streets and they were able to take hold of their own authenticity.
Speaker B:They were then being judged for not being packaged well.
Speaker B:Oh, you're not pretty enough.
Speaker B:Your face is too strong.
Speaker B:Why can't you just wear boys clothing?
Speaker B:Oh, you're fired.
Speaker B:You're making other people uncomfortable.
Speaker B:And you see it a lot when we look back on the way Sylvia and Marsha spoke at speeches full of queer people.
Speaker B:They were discriminated against by gay and lesbian, mostly white, staring at y' all so hard.
Speaker B:Mostly white queer people.
Speaker B: etuated into Society today in: Speaker B:We're not acceptable gays.
Speaker B:Like, we push the bounds.
Speaker B:We will.
Speaker B:And, and what was going on with Kristen was the moment that she pushed the bounds and she fell outside of acceptability.
Speaker B:She was fired.
Speaker B:And then when to the stroll, she was embraced.
Speaker B:Of course she was embraced because outcast, love, outcast.
Speaker B:That's what we do.
Speaker B:We, we huddle.
Speaker B:We huddle together.
Speaker B:Because if there's more of us, then the world can't harm us as much.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:And in that time period.
Speaker B:Oh, my God, is that my watch?
Speaker B:I'm so sorry, guys.
Speaker A:No worries.
Speaker B:I turned my phone off, but my watch doesn't turn off.
Speaker B:Shout out to Mark R. Shout out to Mark Ruble.
Speaker B:Send me some money for that.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:What was I saying?
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The existence in that time period of trans people was.
Speaker B:They were still saying that it was new and it wasn't.
Speaker B:Because even in Kristen's time, Kristen is like, you have to remind yourselves 20 years after Sylvia and Marsha P. Yeah.
Speaker B:The, the.
Speaker B: troll happened roughly around: Speaker B: And in: Speaker B:Like, we still weren't allowed to have jobs.
Speaker B:We weren't allowed equal housing.
Speaker B:We weren't allowed access to hospitals.
Speaker B:We were often sexually assaulted and nobody cared.
Speaker B:It was a different.
Speaker B:It was a different time period in a different world.
Speaker B:But those things still happen to this day.
Speaker B:We just found a better way to sweep them under the rug because we have more to sweep it away from cameras and, and recording devices and those kind of things.
Speaker B:And I think acceptability always plays into who trans people are and what we are allowed.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And like, there's, it's interesting because, you know, as, as, as you were talking, I was like, thinking about, like, the ways in which you're now only seeing.
Speaker A:I mean, we're.
Speaker A:We're seeing it under this administration and trying to force.
Speaker A:For.
Speaker A:Well, not trying like forcing people or people feeling as though they need to go back into the closet.
Speaker A:But then you also see all of the.
Speaker A:All of these.
Speaker A:I. I mean, I can't tell you how many times, like, I've been, you know, documenting a protest and, and there being, like, signs saying, you know, trans rights are human rights.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And that is very much correct.
Speaker A:But then I'm like, well, what are we.
Speaker A:What.
Speaker A:What is actually happening?
Speaker A:What are people actually doing in order to protect trans folks, trans lives, right?
Speaker A:You know, folks are constantly saying, protect the dolls.
Speaker A:But then it's like, okay, but what are we.
Speaker A:What are we as people who, who have.
Speaker A:Have.
Speaker A:Have privilege in that.
Speaker A:In that.
Speaker A:In that aspect, right?
Speaker A:Those of us who are cisgender, right?
Speaker A:Like, what are we doing, you know, in order to, you know, instead of just like, shouting slogans in the streets and that's all well and good, but I'm like, okay, what in the.
Speaker A:In.
Speaker A:In policy, right, Are.
Speaker A:Are we doing.
Speaker A:What are we doing in just every day, you know, when we're talking about mutual aid, you know, mutual aid, you know, also.
Speaker A:Also looks like, you know, making sure that, you know, trans folks have.
Speaker A:Have some.
Speaker A:Have somewhere to live, you know, even if it's just like, you know, like, you're, like, letting, like letting them crash, you know, you know, in.
Speaker A:In your.
Speaker A:In your home or, you know, feeding them or getting, you know, getting them fed and everything or like, whatever it is.
Speaker A:I think.
Speaker A:I think there's like, often a lot of times, you know, we'll.
Speaker A:We'll get into these spaces where, you know, we're saying all of these things, but it's like, okay, it's great that you're saying that.
Speaker A:That's amazing.
Speaker A:But what are, what are we actively doing?
Speaker B:Not enough, to be totally honest.
Speaker B:Like, what I would say is, is like, while you're saying, protect the dolls, hire the dolls.
Speaker A:Hire the dolls.
Speaker B:How about that?
Speaker B:House the dolls, right?
Speaker B:Feed the dolls.
Speaker A:Because that's how we protect.
Speaker A:That's how.
Speaker B:Right?
Speaker B:Yeah, because we say protect and like, we're doing.
Speaker B:We stop there.
Speaker B:What's protection look like for the dolls?
Speaker B:Protection looks like being able to feel safe in your workplace.
Speaker B:Protection looks like being able to walk into a restaurant and eat without being accosted.
Speaker B:Being protected means the ability to choose a neighborhood where you want to live.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And.
Speaker B:And an extension of the rights that everyone sort of takes for granted while they're being taken away from a certain group of people.
Speaker B:And I just want to remind you, we're.
Speaker B:We're screaming, protect the dolls now, but soon we'll be saying, protect you.
Speaker B:Because when we're gone.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:Who will they focus on next?
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Like, that's the, the agenda now is the eradication of transgenderism.
Speaker B:I know, It's.
Speaker B:It's so stupid.
Speaker B:And you see in this film.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B: It starts around: Speaker B:A lot of the girls were being arrested, and it wasn't for sex work.
Speaker B:It was for existing in public.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:The walking while trans law was super strong.
Speaker B:Thanks, Mr. Giuliani.
Speaker B:I hope you have a double colostomy bag that leaks.
Speaker A:And, and, and I also want to.
Speaker A:I want to get into that, too.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So again, Kristen.
Speaker A:Oh my gosh, like, just with her and Zachary just did an incredible job again, breaking down the history.
Speaker A:Breaking down also, too, like, how policy affects all of that.
Speaker A:Because, like, I can see in the film where folks will.
Speaker A:Because I've seen like in.
Speaker A:In archival, like, interviews and, and stuff like that, and folks in New York City talking about these.
Speaker A:These laws that are being passed, these policies are being passed and it being seen as a good thing.
Speaker A:I can, I can see where they're coming from.
Speaker A:But then at the same.
Speaker A:But at the same time, I'm like, well, no, because you have this whole community of people that is.
Speaker A:Is directly going to affect them and their survival.
Speaker A:So, like, talking about, like, you see where they're coming from.
Speaker A:I don't necessarily agree.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:That doesn't mean that I agree.
Speaker A:At the same time, I'm also just like, like it.
Speaker A:For me, it really kind of.
Speaker A:It really opened my eyes to the ways in which, like, again, these specific policies, you know, when you're talking about.
Speaker A:I think.
Speaker A:So it was Giuliani.
Speaker A:So we'll start with Giuliani because then it goes into, like, other mayors like it in, in New York City.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:So Giuliani having this policy or the broken windows policing.
Speaker B:Yeah, broken windows policing and limelight policing.
Speaker B:And, and what was happening in those situations was like, if there was an area where there was broken windows, the theory is there's crime happening.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:If there's an.
Speaker B:If there's graffiti, there's crime happening.
Speaker B:And what that's actually saying is, like, hey, we allow slum lawyers to run your neighborhoods for a very long time, so we're going to over police them because, like, obviously you didn't take care of what we allowed your landlords to do to you.
Speaker B:We didn't take care of like, relegating you to less than.
Speaker B:And now you're going to be punished for it is what it was.
Speaker B:It was, it was fascism light.
Speaker B:And it wasn't specifically targeting trans people.
Speaker B:It was targeting poor brown, queer, like all of those things.
Speaker B:It was targeting all of those things at once.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:And there was a lot of these, like, uprising.
Speaker B:First off, what's the name of that group?
Speaker B:The Guardian Angels.
Speaker A:Oh, my God.
Speaker B:Yeah, you snitching assholes.
Speaker B:That's crazy as hell that the nerve was to be relegated to poverty and sex work.
Speaker B:And like, you put us in this position and now you're go, you're here to clean it up.
Speaker B:That was his whole platform, was that he was going to clean up violent crime.
Speaker B:But did he.
Speaker B:What he actually did was he enacted violence on groups of large groups of people, large swaths of people that didn't look like him.
Speaker B:And if you look at those archival interviews, it's only white people being like, oh, yeah, cleaning up the neighborhood.
Speaker B:Oh my gosh, I'd much rather see this happening.
Speaker B:And he's, he's cleaning up the streets.
Speaker B:What he was actually doing was he was like light genociding.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Like, I can't kill you, but I can lock you up every time I see you.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:I can find you for being huddled in the masses.
Speaker B:I can have police officers stop and frisk you at any time.
Speaker B:This was also the time of the stop and frisk where police officers were kissing men on their faces and touching them and molesting them and all kinds of things.
Speaker B:And they were allowed to.
Speaker B:And limelight was a specific law like movement in the police force where it trafficked.
Speaker B:Well, it specifically targeted traffic, sex traffic.
Speaker B:That was the part where, like, the girls were in.
Speaker B:In the most danger.
Speaker B:Then you see these sweeping jump outs where there was like, stings and like they had cars parked at the end of the street and they would like, huddle you into one space.
Speaker B:And a lot of the girls were getting sexually assaulted during this.
Speaker B:A lot of the girls were having to do favors for police officers who were eventually going to arrest them.
Speaker B:A lot of the girls were then sent to jail.
Speaker B:Boys jail.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Because there was no law to protect us from that where they also are being assaulted or raped until they're putting and put into an area where there are more of them so they can protect each other.
Speaker B:And every instance we have to protect ourselves from them.
Speaker B:And even in incarcerated trans girls were protecting each Other Rudy Giuliani was the beginning of the end for what we knew at that point as sex work.
Speaker B:But sex work was created by society.
Speaker B:When you tell a person that they can't have housing, that they're not acceptable in public, that they can't have a job, that you don't want to see them out in the streets, you don't want to see them in an industry, what else is there to do?
Speaker B:The oldest, most accessible job in existence.
Speaker B:Prostitution.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And most of the girls were getting arrested when they weren't even working.
Speaker B:Girls were getting arrested, going to grocery stores.
Speaker A:Grocery stores.
Speaker A:I remember that one woman talking about it, and I was just like, yeah.
Speaker A:Being punished for existing.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:Girls going to the.
Speaker B:Standing at the bus stop.
Speaker B:It was.
Speaker B:What did they call it?
Speaker B:It was something of solicitation.
Speaker A:I can't.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:Oh, I thought I had it written down, but at some point, yeah, they do.
Speaker A:It's written into there.
Speaker A:Where.
Speaker A:If it.
Speaker A:If it.
Speaker A:Putting this in quotes.
Speaker A:If it looks like they're about to solicit.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B:It looks like if you're standing outside, you're a trans woman, you look like you're going to solicit, period, to everyone.
Speaker B:Because they already have in their mind that we are prostitutes.
Speaker B:Because that was the only job we were allowed for decades.
Speaker B:It wasn't for a small amount of time.
Speaker B:It was for decades.
Speaker B:Like, think about the oldest trans person you know.
Speaker B:The oldest trans person I know was born in the 50s.
Speaker B: b on the books until the late: Speaker B:And even then, they weren't protected.
Speaker B:They were almost elderly at that point.
Speaker B:You're in your mid-40s.
Speaker B:You're trying to just live your life and be authentic, but you can't have.
Speaker B:You can't have peace at work.
Speaker B:You can't have peace out in the street.
Speaker B:If you get caught on your way walking to work and you go to jail, you're fired.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:They don't want to hear the excuse that, like, oh, I wasn't out there prostituting.
Speaker B:Because you are always going to be seen that way.
Speaker B:Like me, I'm a suicide crisis counselor.
Speaker B:I'm still viewed as a prostitute on the street.
Speaker B:I'm standing somewhere too long, a man will be like, oh, so how much?
Speaker B:Well, first off, like, I'm not.
Speaker B:I'm not working secondarily, like, gross.
Speaker B:Like you.
Speaker B:You saw me and your immediate thought was like, oh, that's not a beautiful black woman.
Speaker B:That's a sex ob I can pay for.
Speaker B:Right and that's so weird.
Speaker B:And in this era, in this time, what was going on was Rudy Giuliani made discrimination against us easier.
Speaker B:He made it so much easier with the limelight and the, the, like, redistricting of the.
Speaker B:The peers and all that other stuff.
Speaker B:He began the eradication of the visible trans person.
Speaker B:Because if you can't be acceptable, you can't be visible, right?
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker A:And then we have.
Speaker A:And then we have.
Speaker A:So Bloomberg.
Speaker A:So Bloomberg coming along.
Speaker B:Super capitalist.
Speaker A:So with the.
Speaker A:So Operation Spotlight, which is basically like his version of Clinton's, like, three strikes and you're out.
Speaker B:Yep.
Speaker A:And so a lot.
Speaker A:So when you were talking too, about how a lot of these girls would be locked up, they would be sent off to jail, to.
Speaker A:To boys jail.
Speaker A:And then they talk about in the film how, you know, the more that, the more you were sent to jail, the.
Speaker A:The longer that you were.
Speaker A:Yeah, you were put there.
Speaker A:And then they would send.
Speaker A:They would send them up to.
Speaker A:Or send them to Rikers.
Speaker A:And I just remember thinking, like, at that moment, I'm like, the amount.
Speaker A:The amount of trauma that it has to have, not only on just the individual person, but as a collective, like in the trans community, there's.
Speaker A:You're having trauma from the time that you were not being accepted by your own blood, by your own family.
Speaker A:You're kicked out.
Speaker A:You're having to.
Speaker A:Now you're being forced into this work that is.
Speaker A:Oftentimes it's demonized.
Speaker A:You're seen as.
Speaker A:You're seen as less than you are facing the possibility of going to jail.
Speaker A:You are thrown into jail.
Speaker A:You're thrown into jail with.
Speaker A:With men who are now, like, now you are at high risk or you're going to be sexually assaulted.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker A:There's.
Speaker A:There's so much trauma.
Speaker A:And, and there is.
Speaker A:There's a point in the film where someone was like, you know, if you are right now, as a trans person, if you are past the age of 35.
Speaker A:I think it was 35 or 40.
Speaker B:35.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:If you're past the age of 35, like, you have been exceedingly blessed.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You're an elder.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:You're considered an elder after 35.
Speaker B:I'm 46.
Speaker B:I am an ancient.
Speaker B:Like, and that's not a joke.
Speaker B:That's the truth.
Speaker B:I'm like one of the.
Speaker B:I, I think I'm like the seventh oldest trans woman in Rochester.
Speaker B:You don't see many of us out in public, and when we do get together, you rarely see anyone older than me.
Speaker B:The.
Speaker B:The Existence of trans people in New York at that time, it was a very tumultuous time.
Speaker B:So to make it to 32, it was 32 back then.
Speaker B:35 Is more 35 now.
Speaker B:We, we got an extra three years out of the progress that we made since then.
Speaker B:Back then, like, I think there was one girl, her name was Trinity.
Speaker B:And she talked about how she was sent to jail enough times.
Speaker B:And once she was there, the third time, someone tried.
Speaker B:Someone tried to sexually assault her.
Speaker B:She was only supposed to be there for seven years for solicitation.
Speaker B:And then someone tried to sexually assault her.
Speaker B:Which you were set up for.
Speaker B:You're set up to be sexually assaulted in jail as a trans woman if you are being sent to a male prison and your body presents as female.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And she cut someone in her own defense to make sure that she wasn't raped or killed in prison and she got an additional seven years.
Speaker B:So not only are you dealing with the loss of family and the loss of your space in society, you are dealing with the loss of time.
Speaker B:When she went into prison, they had pagers, right?
Speaker A:And she came out that they have.
Speaker A:She's like, what's an iPhone?
Speaker B:Right.
Speaker B:They had pagers and there was no such thing as an app.
Speaker B:And the, the stroll looked like a meat packing district.
Speaker B:It didn't look like Rodeo or the boardwalk.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:And when she came out, it looked completely different.
Speaker B:And in that time, not only did she lose her space in time, she lost her friends, she lost her family, she lost the.
Speaker B:The strip that made her feel the most loved and safe.
Speaker B:And it was less focused on the prostitution part of it, but the camaraderie of the girls that she lost because while she was away, the rules of society slowly whittled away her friends.
Speaker B:Time is the thing, is a thief.
Speaker B:But time was aided in this instance by Bloomberg and Rudy Giuliani.
Speaker B:So what?
Speaker B:Bloomberg, a billionaire who had no actual, like, political, like, knowledge.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:He just came in and he, he just gentrified large areas.
Speaker B:Shout out to Jay Z, to being at a lot of these groundbreaking things, you piece of.
Speaker B:Because capitalism and like, I, I don't want to get into a large jump where we talk about how black excellence leads to capitalism.
Speaker A:That's a whole.
Speaker A:That's a whole episode.
Speaker B:That's a whole different episode.
Speaker B:But like, he was a venture capitalist and what he was doing was he was just beautifying areas, and in doing so, he was just pushing out poor people, right?
Speaker B:So a lot of those people that you saw saying, like, oh, they're Going to do good for the neighborhood.
Speaker B:Where do they live now?
Speaker A:Right, right.
Speaker B:Can we get a follow up interview with them?
Speaker B:Because I bet you it's not near the strip.
Speaker B:I bet you it's not near the stroll no more.
Speaker B:Because you can't afford to live down there with Zaxby's and Abercrombie.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And all of these stores, like moving into there.
Speaker B:It's still got that old smell of the meat packing district.
Speaker B:There are seven meat packing places left after hundreds used to be there.
Speaker B:But he moved all of that around.
Speaker B:Right, because he wanted tourism.
Speaker B:He didn't want to protect anyone.
Speaker B:He didn't make anything safe.
Speaker B:He made it more appealing to the tourist eye.
Speaker B:And in doing so, when we do that kind of stuff, what we have to do is we have to get rid of undesirables.
Speaker B:And we fell into the category trans sex workers fell into the category poor Latinos and blacks fell into that category.
Speaker B:The elderly who are the visibly disabled fell into that category.
Speaker B:Bloomberg didn't beautify the city.
Speaker B:I remember he made a like, you can't have a super sized drink anymore.
Speaker B:It was just like, it was like fascism light.
Speaker B:Like it was just what.
Speaker B:The reason why the McDonald's Super Siiz menu stopped in New York City was because Michael Bloomberg said it had to.
Speaker B:Because the sugar was making the children crazy.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:Yeah.
Speaker B:This is the kind of politicians we were dealing with.
Speaker B:And what was happening in those times was like he was knocking down whole things and then rebuilding these structures.
Speaker B:And remember we're in the end game where like we're at like right around like 9 11.
Speaker B:This is right around 9 11.
Speaker B:So like the stroll was already covered in a thin layer of dust.
Speaker B:But he wanted to make sure that when it was cleaned, he cleaned away everything, including the undesirables.
Speaker B:So if you go down to where the stroll is right now, it's cobblestone.
Speaker B:Then there's like trendy bars and there's lots of like, like free, free of fear.
Speaker B:White people walking around.
Speaker B:Nah.
Speaker B:Bring back that time where you were scared to walk up the street.
Speaker B:Because if you're scared of my neighborhood, then my neighborhood continues to exist.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Because the minute white tourism out, like outweighs our safety, we no longer exist.
Speaker B:And that's what Bloomberg's whole goal was.
Speaker B:It wasn't like, oh, I'm gonna clean up the city.
Speaker B:It's like, no, I'm gonna clean up parts of the city for commerce.
Speaker B:And then you've seen these interviews.
Speaker B:People were like, he's gonna, he's Going to bring back commerce to this area.
Speaker B:And yeah, he did, but at the cost of Maggie being gone, Kristen being gone, Tammy being gone, Trinity being gone.
Speaker B:Hundreds of women disappeared overnight.
Speaker B:And nobody's talking about it.
Speaker B:Nobody's talking about that.
Speaker B:And also I, I think I skipped over it, but I wanted to touch on it.
Speaker B:Trans women were killed out in the open.
Speaker B:Sh.
Speaker B:I can't, I don't know why I can't remember her name.
Speaker B:I think it's the trauma of it blanks me out.
Speaker B:But a woman was the same time that Matthew Shepard was murdered.
Speaker A:Oh, Amanda Milan.
Speaker B:Amanda Milan got into an argument with a man.
Speaker B:Now, Amanda Milan wasn't just some street prostitute.
Speaker B:Amanda Milan was an upand cominging legend and she was getting jobs and she was getting work and she was, she was a beautiful soul who was there for the girls, who was there for the community.
Speaker B:And all it took was for us to be degraded enough on television and talked about enough in the news for some 26 year old man to feel that a discussion with a trans woman that didn't go his way warranted him stabbing her in the neck.
Speaker B:And instead of anyone acting in that instance, this is the, this is the outcome of what Rudy Giuliani and Bloomberg did.
Speaker B:Instead of anyone reacting to save her.
Speaker B:The last thing she heard on the Port Authority that day was a group of people laughing at her.
Speaker B:And that hurt me to my heart.
Speaker B:Every 13 seconds a trans woman dies.
Speaker B:Back then it was every eight.
Speaker B:And when we, when we pull out rhetoric, when we target legisl, like legislatively a group of people, that doesn't mean that we get to lock them away.
Speaker B:That means a lot of the times that they die by the hands of other constituents who believe in your rhetoric.
Speaker B:Some man devalued this trans, this beautiful trans woman because he had heard enough rhetoric in that time.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker B:And seen enough of the arrest and the bust and them constantly talking about trans women.
Speaker B:There's one video that they show in this where there is a no hookers sign.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And there is a like epitaph of a trans woman hung by the neck.
Speaker B:We're not going to talk about the symbolism in that.
Speaker B:How it's okay to hang black trans women to them.
Speaker B:Oh, they're ruining our streets.
Speaker B:Well, your street was a prostitution area for a reason and it was relegated there.
Speaker B:They, these women didn't choose to be there, they were put there.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And we made it.
Speaker B:Bloomberg and Giuliani made it so easy for us to be the targets of death threats unanswered Death threats because you got to think about the back of Paris is Burning.
Speaker B:We still don't know who killed Venus.
Speaker B:We don't know who killed Marsha P. Johnson.
Speaker B:We watched Sylvia struggle with homelessness and mental illness until the day of her death.
Speaker B:No one cares when we are being harmed.
Speaker B:No one cared then, no one barely cares now.
Speaker B:And we have to document these kind of things for ourselves to keep ourselves safe.
Speaker B:And this movie is a documentation of the level of care that we had then that we can then hold a comparison to now.
Speaker B:And not much has changed.
Speaker B:Not much has changed.
Speaker B:I'm sorry, I think I jumped off a little bit, but.
Speaker A:No, you're fine.
Speaker A:This is, Listen, this is, this is what this is about.
Speaker A:Movies when, when they're done well, our chances to not only, like, view the world around us, view the people who.
Speaker A:Around us, but the people who, again, are shoved aside in our society who are deemed less than right because they are different.
Speaker A:And it's also a chance to learn.
Speaker A:Right?
Speaker A:Like it's.
Speaker A:I, this is why I love documentary filmmaking, is because it's like, okay, you, you have now had people in front of you telling you their stories.
Speaker A:You've also had the breakdown of, like, the history, you know, history of, of, of the stroll and also too of what the.
Speaker A:What was going on at the time.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:And how, how black trans women's lives were affected and all of that.
Speaker A:And so now that you have the information, what are you going to do with that?
Speaker B:Yeah, this is our cave painting.
Speaker B:Yeah, these are our stories.
Speaker B:This is, this is our tapestry that we are weaving on our own.
Speaker B:There was in this, in this movie, there is no outside hand who did not have experience in that era.
Speaker B:And that's how these stories should be told.
Speaker B:We have to stop letting these outsiders come in and exploit us and take the, the.
Speaker B:The most harmful parts.
Speaker B:Because what they also didn't.
Speaker B:They did tell us about Bloomberg and they did tell us about the laws, and they did tell us about walking while trans, but they also told us about the Comrade Rodri and the joy they felt when they were together.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:Seeing those survivors towards the end of the movie, walking together, I, like, I, I cry every time because it's such a beautiful thing to see what survival looks like on the other side.
Speaker B:Girls remembering with fond memories, dangerous things, but still being together, still holding hands, still being seen in public spaces, not afraid anymore.
Speaker B:Not running from the lights, not running from police officers.
Speaker B:You don't hear that click clack for the reasons that you used to.
Speaker B:You hear it for A joyous reason because we are allowed to dance with each other, other and, and, and be with each other and remember and hold each other.
Speaker B:The trans existence is rewarding in such a way when you can look at your sister and say, we made it.
Speaker B:We survived that.
Speaker B:And I'm so sad that a lot of the girls did not.
Speaker B:In this constant targeting of us, we have to.
Speaker B:We have to document this, we have to document that, but we need to document the joy.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:Because without that, there's like.
Speaker B:Doesn't make.
Speaker B:It doesn't make this life any easier seeing these beautiful older trans women who survived through the late 80s and the 90s to now.
Speaker B:Yeah, it gives me hope.
Speaker A:Yes.
Speaker B:It gives hope to others.
Speaker B:It shows the humanity in us because we went through so much.
Speaker B:The walking around trans bill, the gentrification and master incarceration.
Speaker B:There's a.
Speaker B:There's and there.
Speaker B:And there's a quote.
Speaker B:And like, I'm.
Speaker B:I thank you for putting that note to me.
Speaker B:If there was a thousand girls back then, there are only five.
Speaker B:When I started transitioning, I had lots of trans friends.
Speaker B:There's only me now.
Speaker B:And we have to be able to tell those stories and we have to be able to mourn our dead, but we also need to hold the living, care for the living.
Speaker A:Yeah, it was.
Speaker A:My God, Cam, like, seriously, you're such a. I'm, I'm.
Speaker A:I'm grateful that you are.
Speaker A:That you are here, that you, You.
Speaker A:You have.
Speaker A:You have all these experiences, but there's also.
Speaker A:So there.
Speaker A:There is so much.
Speaker A:And just like that, I've not.
Speaker A:Not just learned from you, but you are someone who is very much this powerhouse, this.
Speaker A:This person who is cracking like.
Speaker A:It's just.
Speaker A:You are also, at the same time with all of this, like you mentioned, you know, there's.
Speaker A:There's all this.
Speaker A:There's all this trauma.
Speaker A:There's all these things that have happened, but there is so much joy.
Speaker A:Right, that you also hold.
Speaker A:There is so much humor.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:That you, that, that you hold.
Speaker A:I can't.
Speaker A:I can't remember a time where in conversations that you haven't made myself or other people around you, like, laugh their heads off like it's.
Speaker B:I'm Transpagliacci.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker B:What, you wanna hear the story?
Speaker A:Yes, I want to hear the story.
Speaker B:Man walks into a therapist's office and he says he's having a hard time and he's dealing with depression in a cruel world.
Speaker B:The therapist then slides two tickets across the desk and says, I prescribe that you go and check Out Pagliachi tonight.
Speaker B:He's hilarious.
Speaker B:And he'll maybe take some of this pain off your shoulders.
Speaker B:The man then burst into tears.
Speaker B:And when the therapist asked him what's wrong, what's.
Speaker B:What's happening right now, the man looks up and says, I am Paglia.
Speaker B:I laugh so that I don't cry.
Speaker B:I make everyone around me laugh so that I don't cry.
Speaker B:The I am happy with who I am.
Speaker A:Yeah.
Speaker B:And I'm.
Speaker B:I appear strong, but I borrow that strength from the girls that came before me.
Speaker B:I borrow that strength from those who are in the room with me.
Speaker B:Because I have to put on a brave face.
Speaker B:I have to put on a brave face.
Speaker B:I have to make you laugh or I won't.
Speaker B:I have to make you feel loved or I don't.
Speaker B:And that is my trauma.
Speaker B:That is how I deal with what I went through.
Speaker B:That I don't want to paint this picture that I'm some, like, happy, go lucky person.
Speaker B:I suffer and I struggle.
Speaker B:I struggle just like these girls did.
Speaker B:And the hustle within me is what keeps me alive.
Speaker B:The hustle within me is what makes me make you laugh.
Speaker B:But this existence is not for the weak.
Speaker B:It's not for the weak.
Speaker B:I. I daily struggle with suicidal ideation.
Speaker B:I and a lot of these girls succumb to that.
Speaker B:I daily struggled with drug addiction and a lot of these girls succumb to that.
Speaker B:I. I daily struggle with not feeling like I'm enough in spacers or being stared at.
Speaker B:This morning I drove here to have a meeting before.
Speaker B:And on my way here, I was accosted, called names, made front of.
Speaker B:All of that happened in one place, a gas station we haven't looked from.
Speaker B:From what we're talking about in this movie and what's being demonstrated here, nothing has changed.
Speaker B:Nothing has changed.
Speaker B:The only thing that has changed is that there's a small glimmer, a small seed of hope planted in every trans girl whose eye is set upon.
Speaker B:This movie is a light at an end of a tunnel for a girl who thinks hope is lost.
Speaker B:And if I can be a small part of that, like I said last time we were here together, there is a future that I will not live to see.
Speaker B:But maybe some part of me will be carried into that.
Speaker B:And that's what gets me through.
Speaker B:That's why I love this movie so much.
Speaker B:That's why I watch it so many times, because it is a small spark of joy in a life that.
Speaker B:Where the light is constantly being protected from being dimmed by others.
Speaker A:Cam you're such a beautiful soul, girl.
Speaker A:You're such a beautiful woman.
Speaker A:Like, this is.
Speaker A:It's a lot.
Speaker A:It's a lot.
Speaker A:And no one.
Speaker A:No one should have to go through what you or any of the girls, right, that we've talked about that have come before you have gone through.
Speaker A:And to say all of that and to have that drive to keep going is.
Speaker A:It's huge.
Speaker A:It's huge.
Speaker A:And I just want you to be encouraged, you know, that you are.
Speaker A:You are a beautiful person who.
Speaker A:Who will get the things that you set out to get, that you will have and experience joy and the fullness of this.
Speaker A:Of this life.
Speaker A:Right.
Speaker A:Of having joyful experiences of being.
Speaker B:Being.
Speaker A:Being who you are fully.
Speaker A:And also, too, what it's going to take from us, what it's going to take from us as people who are cisgender, who hold lots of privilege to do everything, everything in our power to make sure that you are able to live that full life, the life that you.
Speaker A:The life that you deserve as a human in this world.
Speaker A:So.
Speaker A:So, yeah, I.
Speaker A:And I absolutely appreciate you for.
Speaker A:For.
Speaker A:For being here, for being on this podcast, for.
Speaker A:For living as your authentic self that I know that can't come.
Speaker A:That could not come without the girls who were before, who came before you.
Speaker A:Oh, girl, you're gonna make me cry on this.
Speaker B:I'm sorry.
Speaker A:No, don't apologize.
Speaker A:Don't apologize.
Speaker A:This is.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's.
Speaker A:That's being human, as I usually say to people who step in front of my camera.
Speaker A:You know, as a documentary filmmaker, never apologize for being a human being.
Speaker A:You know, emotions are.
Speaker A:Are what it is to.
Speaker A:To be human.
Speaker A:So, yeah, never apologize for that.
Speaker A:For sure.
Speaker A:Okay.
Speaker A:Moving forward.
Speaker A:And.
Speaker A:And I mean, we wouldn't.
Speaker A:This.
Speaker A:This film, I believe, should be required viewing.
Speaker B:Yes.
Speaker A:For everyone, whether you're in classroom, whether you're in a boardroom, wherever you are, like, absolutely.
Speaker A:Make sure that you go and watch the stroll.
Speaker A:So I want to.
Speaker A:I want to move into.
Speaker A:Before we wrap, we ask about.
Speaker A:This is representation in cinema.
Speaker A:We ask about representation and what I want to know from you.
Speaker A:You know, we firmly believe that in order to see more stories like these on screen, that we have to seek out films that are made by independent filmmakers, much like Kristen Lovell and Zachary Drucker did.
Speaker A:So are there any filmmakers or any films that are not getting talked about enough that you'd like to amplify?
Speaker B:This was the one.
Speaker B:This was the one for me, like I said, there aren't a plethora of Black trans queer directors and producers out there.
Speaker B:This was the one for me.
Speaker B:I would, I would love to know of more.
Speaker B:I am open to find more.
Speaker B:I am searching for them.
Speaker B:But like this was the epitome for me.
Speaker A:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A:And how can, how can people, how can our listeners support you?
Speaker B:Give me money.
Speaker B:Yes, but you can follow me at K A M R Y N E O S on Instagram, Trano's pod on TikTok and keep your eyes out for Trano's Pod for wayward girls.
Speaker B:It's coming down the pipe soon.
Speaker B:I really enjoyed being here and talking about this.
Speaker B:It's been emotional as it makes me.
Speaker B:And I will leave you with a bash.
Speaker B:The Cameron stood and knew how awful goodness was.
Speaker A:Oh, if people want to give you money, how, how can they do so?
Speaker B:Cash, Cash.
Speaker A:Not like a Venmo.
Speaker B:My Venmo is Cameron Jarrell.
Speaker B:So it's just dash Cameron Darrell and send me that money.
Speaker A:All right, sounds good.
Speaker A:Well, I thank you once again for joining the podcast.
Speaker A:It's been, it's always, it's always a great time just being in company with you.
Speaker A:Damn.
Speaker A:Listeners will have information about how you can support her and where you can follow her in the show notes or of course in the description below.
Speaker A:If you're watching on YouTube, wherever you're listening from, hit that subscribe button, give us a five star rating and then share this episode and leave a comment to let us know what you thought of tonight's episode.
Speaker A:Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Tick Tock and threads.
Speaker A:Visit ourvoicesproject.com and sign up for our newsletter for more information about what we do.
Speaker A:We'll be back with more episodes continuing our Black August series, including discussing the documentary Ida B.
Speaker A:Wells A Chicago Story Special which you can now watch on YouTube.
Speaker A:This has been Jackie McGriff, your host for this episode of Representation in Cinema.
Speaker A:As always, thank you for listening.
Speaker B:This has been a presentation of the Lunchadore podcast Network Work.
Speaker B:That's a good bit of a lot, huh?
Speaker B:Oh my God.
Speaker A:I was like looking for tissue.
Speaker A:Oh, there is the tissue box.
Speaker B:I saw it but I just didn't want to move cuz I was like if I move from here I'm going.
Speaker A:To start crying, I'm going to fall.
Speaker B:So I just like tried to like okay, I didn't want to cry.
Speaker A:Just happened.
Speaker A:Do you, do you want to hug?
Speaker B:How many times I've been hugged in the last 10 years?
